Brines 101: The differences between Gradient and Equilibrium Brines

[DivotMaker]

Same to you, Bill!  Happy smoking! 8)

 

[SmokedGouda]

You need the sum of the meat and water weight, but the meat and water weight don't need to be the same.
In other words, meat and water need not weigh 500 grams each, total 1000 grams. 750 grams of meat and 250 grams of water is fine.

I know this post is quite old, but there is a ton of helpful stuff here and I didn't want to create a new post for a very related topic...

I am getting prepared to take my first stab at jerky and am reading as many posts as I can. (I'll be making a jerky post at some point in the near future, but will mainly follow Tony's Part 2 post http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=1561.0)
I want to give the EQ brine a try and will use the spreadsheet that Plan2Build shared (http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=4626.0) to determine the amount of salt/sugar to use.

After all the reading I've done, the above comment about water weight and meat weight confused me the most. Since most of what I read led me to believe that they need to be equal (just like Tony said). Since this post was well over a year ago, I'm hoping someone (Tony) has learned even more and can shed some more light on this part of the brining process.

I also just realized while making my batch of bacon that my food scale maxes out at 5lbs, so I had to use our regular, human, scale for that haha. I will probably do the same for the jerky since I'll want at least 5lbs of finished product. But if I don't have to weigh the water it'll make that a bit easier.

I am planning on using EQ brines going forward instead of the gradient brines, since I love the idea of repeatable/consistent results! Please correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no issues with removing the curing salt for brining brisket or pork butt, I would just have to "zero out" the mg/kg nitrate field to make sure the brine amounts are correct??

Lastly, what's the SHORTEST amount of time that I should be leaving something in the EQ brine?

Thanks for the help!

 

[DiggingDogFarm]

After all the reading I've done, the above comment about water weight and meat weight confused me the most. Since most of what I read led me to believe that they need to be equal (just like Tony said).

No, they definitely don't need to be equal.
Using an amount of water that's less than equal to the amount of meat is actually best.... less ingredients are used and the brine is more concentrated so curing is faster and there's less of a chance of the brine possibly going bad during long term cures.

I also just realized while making my batch of bacon that my food scale maxes out at 5lbs, so I had to use our regular, human, scale for that haha. I will probably do the same for the jerky since I'll want at least 5lbs of finished product. But if I don't have to weigh the water it'll make that a bit easier.

If you want accuracy and repeatability, I strongly recommend a good gram scale for the meat/water and a very accurate gram scale for the cure.

There is, however, a way to do it without any scale that's as good as the rule-of-thumb 1 tsp. cure#1 per 5 pounds of meat via a graduated brining container.

Lastly, what's the SHORTEST amount of time that I should be leaving something in the EQ brine?

This depends on numerous factors, strength of brine, thickness of meat, cut of meat, muscle orientation, amount of connective tissue, amount of fat, etc. Anywhere from a day (or less) for very thin jerky to weeks. I recommend pumping thick pieces of meat.

Simple curing calculator: http://www.diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html

~Martin

 

[DiggingDogFarm]

I hope the following will make understanding an equilibrium brine a bit easier.
I'll keep details to a minimum to highlight what's most important.

One level teaspoon of Cure #1 applied to five pounds of pork will, given enough time, come to equilibrium.
~156ppm nitrite in the pork when curing is complete.

The same is true for four pounds of pork plus one pound of water. Again one level teaspoon of Cure #1 can be applied to the five pounds (this time meat and water) via mixing it with the water. So, in this case, the cure, given enough time, comes to equilibrium in the meat and water instead of just the meat. ~156ppm nitrite in both  the pork and the water when curing is complete.

 

[SmokedGouda]

I hope the following will make understanding an equilibrium brine a bit easier.
I'll keep details to a minimum to highlight what's most important.

One level teaspoon of Cure #1 applied to five pounds of pork will, given enough time, come to equilibrium.
~156ppm nitrite in the pork when curing is complete.

The same is true for four pounds of pork plus one pound of water. Again one level teaspoon of Cure #1 can be applied to the five pounds (this time meat and water) via mixing it with the water. So, in this case, the cure, given enough time, comes to equilibrium in the meat and water instead of just the meat. ~156ppm nitrite in both  the pork and the water when curing is complete.

This absolutely helps understand the water aspect of the brine, thanks Martin! The calculator works for both traditional dry cure (like for bacon) and EQ brines, right?

I'm assuming I plug the numbers into the calculator and use those amounts and then I'll just add enough water to cover everything in the container? Or do I need to factor the weight of the water into any calculations?

I'll definitely get a better scale in the near future, I just didn't realize mine was such a low limit when I went to weigh the meat. The one I have now should work well for weighing the cure ingredients, so I'll just need one that handles heavier weights for the meat.

Thanks again!

 

[DiggingDogFarm]

The calculator works for both traditional dry cure (like for bacon) and EQ brines, right?
Or do I need to factor the weight of the water into any calculations?

Yes, enter the sum of the weight of both the water and the meat into the calculator when doing an equilibrium brine.

 

[BonaireBBQ]

Well "Life" caught up with me today or maybe it was optimistic -poor planning, but I started brining a 2595 gram pork loin yesterday at noon in a 1.5 % salt 1% sugar brine (no curing salt) using your equilibrium brine calculator. I planned on smoking it this weekend or Monday but it looks like I may have to wait till next weekend to smoke it. The Big Question is how long can it hold in the brine and still be safe to smoke and eat and or should I up the salt to 2%? Another couple of questions how long for an equilibrium brine to work it way in on a large Butt and or a packer brisket +/- days? Thanks any help - guidance is greatly appreciated!

 

[curegeorg]

An equilibrium brine equalizes and does not over salt.  I dry brine my packer briskets for about 2 days, which is also an equilibrium brine technique but much easier for me since I do not have a large enough fridge or vessel for the brisket to soak in.  However, since you are salting your meat entirely through the brine process, be careful not to over salt with your rub, etc.

 

[BonaireBBQ]

Not so worried about over salting I have done this before. I more worried about how long I can hold it before smoking.

 

[DivotMaker]

Walt, sorry about my absence on this topic!  I've been overcome by events for a few days!

As usual, Martin has given sound advice!  The reason I talked about equal water/meat weights is to keep it simple.  Although I know the combined mass is what's important (like Martin said), I just find using equal amounts works better for me.  Either way is correct!

Now, as far as holding that meat for a week?  Not sure I would do that.  Personally, I would probably remove it from the brine and vacuum seal it, for that length of time.  Martin may say otherwise...not sure.  It might be fine, sitting in the brine for a week, but I don't know the answer to that.

 

[SmokedGouda]

Just started brining a brisket for Sunday. I used Martins calculator and selected 2% sugar and salt. Zeroed out the nitrate. I added the total weight of the meat and the water, then plugged that into the site. I added more weight in water since it wasn't going to cover the meat if I did the same weight.

3460 grams meat
5000 grams water

169 grams salt
169 grams sugar (I split 100/69 brown/white... not sure why haha)

I hope I did this right, but I'll find out in 2 days.

 

[DivotMaker]

How'd it turn out, Phil?

 

[SmokedGouda]

Pretty moist and tasty! Better than the first one I did.

I'm not sure if it was in the brine long enough or not (27 hrs) but everyone loved it. It was a 7.63 lb flat. I still can't find a packer at any of the Costcos around here. Took just over 15 hrs to get up to 190 before I took it out and wrapped in butcher paper for a few hours. I did increase temp after 8 & 12 hours since I wanted to toss wings in at a certain time.

I really underestimated the time it would take on this one (planned 1.5/#) but also wanted to stretch the brine time out as long as I could so I couldn't really start much earlier. Time wasn't on my side

It all worked out and both the brisket and wings (Costco preseasoned) were delicious. Everyone loved it all. I have some brisket leftover that will be going into a chili along with some leftover bacon.

Using an amount of water that's less than equal to the amount of meat is actually best.... less ingredients are used and the brine is more concentrated so curing is faster and there's less of a chance of the brine possibly going bad during long term cures.

Follow up question that I have for you regarding the EQ brine and the water. Due to the shape and size of my container, I needed almost 2x more weight in water to cover the meat. Is it an issue that I'm having a much higher water weight % compared to what Martin suggested?

 

[DivotMaker]

Follow up question that I have for you regarding the EQ brine and the water. Due to the shape and size of my container, I needed almost 2x more weight in water to cover the meat. Is it an issue that I'm having a much higher water weight % compared to what Martin suggested?

Great to hear it was a success, Phil!

I'm not really sure about your question.  Maybe Martin will chime in.  I would think you would need to adjust your ingredients for the extra water weight, but I'm really not sure!  One way you could avoid that problem, though, is to use a big Ziploc bag to put the brisket & brine in...just be sure to put the whole thing in a container that will hold it all, in case your bag turns into the Oroville dam!  Nothing worse than a brining bag springing a leak (been there, done that).