Temperature Issues - New Heating Element?

[CUTiger80]

Thanks for all of the input and suggestions, guys.  This is certainly a very interactive and helpful forum and I'm thankful that you guys put up with my anal questions and comments.
Sounds like I have several tests to run this weekend to determine if my smoker and Auber are performing correctly with my stock heating element.  Then, should my new 800W element arrive by weeks end, install it and re-calibrate the Auber (assuming I determine that it is not defective).  On top of that, I plan to smoke some meat-loafs (cause a guy's got to eat eventually).
I think my first test will be to try and simulate the chicken cook from last weekend with a dummy meat load (a pan of sand dampened with ice water).  Using Dave's suggestion, I'll monitor the Auber and Maverick probes and photo/log the results every 15 minutes.
If I get similar results as I did over the weekend, I will by-pass the Auber and try the same test using the stock controller.  This should tell me if the heating element is good or not.  If it tests out good, then I will point my finger back at the Auber.  I will try running the test again with the Auber, only this time with the meat probe inserted to see if that makes a difference.  (I seem to remember seeing some comments about that on another thread that dealt with inconsistent results with the Auber.)  If I have enough time, I may also try the Auber without the ramp-up setting to see if something strange is happening when the Auber switches between steps.
I will then recalibrate the Auber (recording the PID settings before and after) and run the test again to see if the results change.
Also, during this process, if I suspect that there is an issue with the Auber, I will measure the voltage output of the unit to insure that it is 120V, especially if I determine that the heating element is fine.
If you guys can think of any other things/tests I can try/perform, then throw them at me and I will give them a shot.
Since I didn't cook the chicken with a pan of water in the bottom of the smoker, I was planning to run these tests without water as well.  (Obviously, if I recalibrate the Auber, I will put water in a pan in the bottom next to the fire box.)  Also, I was planning to run the tests without wood (smoke).

 

[DivotMaker]

Wow...OMG, Ravel!  Hey, you're an EE, so have fun with all that!  Personally, I'd install the new element, run an autotune, and smoke something.

 

[CUTiger80]

Tony, It does not appear that my new 800W element will arrive before the weekend, so that is not an option.  Plus, I really want to know if my current element is OK (so I can determine whether to keep it as a back-up or toss it) and whether my Auber is working right. 

 

[CUTiger80]

So, for the first test run tonight I decided to just set the Auber for 275 and let er rip. I filled a shallow half size pan about half full of sand & then poured in about a pint of ice water. I mounted the Maverick probe to the top of the top shelf that I placed as high as possible. Both the Maverick & Auber fixed probes were at almost exactly the same height (see photo).
It took the smoker almost exactly 1 hour to reach 275 and it locked on it for another 30 minutes.  The only strange thing was that the Maverick read 264 after 1 hour and it stayed locked on it for another half hour.
So it sounds like both my Auber & heating element are fine. Just curious why my Maverick reads 11 degrees lower when the probes are almost side-by-side and why I couldn't  get to 275 last week with 8 chicken breasts.
I may test the Maverick probe in some boiling water tomorrow just to see what it reads. I hate to test the Auber probe because it would require removing it which means removing the back. I may wait until my 800w element arrives and test the probe while I have the back removed to install the element.

 

[DivotMaker]

I hate to test the Auber probe because it would require removing it which means removing the back. I may wait until my 800w element arrives and test the probe while I have the back removed to install the element.

Make a glass of ice water, and tilt it over the probe.  Should read 32°.  Just don't fill it too full!

 

[elkins20]

Hey Ravel, Almost sounds like your maverick is not working properly. A couple of weeks ago I smoked a BB and had trouble with mine. As the maverick said the IT of the butt was 195. And when I checked it with my ThermoWorks RT301Wa the IT was 185. If I was you would definitely check the maverick. As I trust the Auber more so than the maverick. Good luck with your experiments.

 

[Carp210]

ravel,
It is not uncommon for the Auber and Mav to have anywhere from 1 to 11 degrees difference. Most of my tests have shown a diff of less than 5 degrees.  It all depends on exact probe placement and where on the temp curve you are taking your reading.  I've seen it start at the same temp then as it climbs you'll see a 2 or 3 degree diff.  Never have I seen it match exactly all the way up to target. 

 

[CUTiger80]

Saturday morning I followed my instincts and Tony's suggestion and tested all of my probes.  I was able to mix up some ice water in a water bottle and tilt the smoker over and insert the bottle over the fixed probe.  It read exactly 32 deg.  I tested the Auber meat and both Maverick probes and they all read 32 deg.  Just for the heck of it, I boiled some water and tested both the Maverick probes and they read 212 deg.  I tested the Auber meat probe in both inputs of the Auber and it also read 212 deg.  By deduction, I'm assuming that the Auber fixed probe is also accurate at the higher end.
I think that I have determined that both my smoker element and my Auber are working properly and that all of my temp probes are accurate. So the issue I had with smoking 8 chicken breasts must have been operator error of some type.
I did learn a lot from this process and from you guys giving me tips along the way that hopefully improves my smoking skills at least a little.
On Sunday, I smoked a meatloaf and some sausage and the Auber and smoker performed exactly as it should.  I'll post recipes and pictures in a different location later in the week.
I also received my new 800W element on Saturday and will install it and autotune in the next couple of weeks.  Hopefully, this will improve the SI#2 even more.
Thanks again to all of you for your help with sorting this out.

 

[elkins20]

Hey Ravel, quick question, what did you use to test the heating element? I would like to test mine as I have a problem with my wood just looking like charcoal rather than burning all and just leaving ash.

 

[DivotMaker]

Good to hear, Ravel!

 

[CUTiger80]

Hey Ravel, quick question, what did you use to test the heating element? I would like to test mine as I have a problem with my wood just looking like charcoal rather than burning all and just leaving ash.

Bill,
My "test" was to use a dummy meat load (cold, damp sand) and try to get the smoker temp up to 275 or 300 deg.  That will pretty much tell you if your element is working correctly.  My experience with other similar heating elements (water heater & oven) is that it either works or it doesn't.  There is not any in between.  If you have a volt-ohm meter (sometimes called a multi-meter), and have the back off of your SI, you can test the element by disconnecting the cables from it and measuring the resistance across the element.  It should be really low (say 15 to 25 ohms) if it is working properly.  (My new 800 watt element reads about 18 ohms.)  While you have the back off and the cables disconnected, go ahead and measure from each side of the element to the SI metal cabinet.  This reading should be infinitely high (or a completely open circuit).  If you read any resistance at all, you have a short of some type between the element and the cabinet (this is not a good thing).
If you don't have one, you can pick up a relatively good multi-meter on Amazon for $15-$25.  It is a very handy tool to have around.
I hope this answers your question about the element.
As far as the color of the wood, it seems that the wood will be black after a relatively short smoke and will turn to ash on a long smoke (like a Boston Butt).  Others on this forum have told me that this is normal (I had the same question).

 

[elkins20]

Thanks Raval, I think I have cold spots on my element. As none of the wood in the #1 ever turns to ash. But, yet on my #3 it seems to get some turn to ash. Also the #3 was used and maybe 2 years old. Not sure if the element is 1200 or not. I may write an e-mail to Steve and as him about both of my elements. But, the meat is coming out good. I wish you good luck in finding your problem. Especially with the chicken, and not getting done. I will also see if cannot find a decent ohm meter.

 

[SuperDave]

Bill, is there still an SI sticker on your #3?  That should give you the stats on that unit. 

 

[DivotMaker]

Thanks Raval, I think I have cold spots on my element. As none of the wood in the #1 ever turns to ash. But, yet on my #3 it seems to get some turn to ash. Also the #3 was used and maybe 2 years old. Not sure if the element is 1200 or not. I may write an e-mail to Steve and as him about both of my elements. But, the meat is coming out good. I wish you good luck in finding your problem. Especially with the chicken, and not getting done. I will also see if cannot find a decent ohm meter.

It's on the metal plate, on the back of the smoker.  It's 1200 watts - never been anything different in the 3.  Only the 1 and 2 were upgraded in size.

 

[elkins20]

Thanks Dave and Tony, will check the back plates out.

 

[CUTiger80]

I installed my new 800 watt element last night and ran an autotune with a pan of cold, wet sand (it may have been too wet). The readings I got seemed a little strange (P=72, I=72, D=268). The previous readings with the 700 watt stock element was P=61, I=807, D=201.  Does anyone else think these numbers (especially the "I" value) are off? Should I run an autotune again with less wet sand?

 

[elkins20]

Hey Ravel, after installing the permanent probe on my smokers. On the number 3 mine was p=97 i=156 d=143. And on my #1 they were really different p=61 i=362 d=340. Which was strange as the AT was run at the same time and right next to one another. Tony/DivotMaker told me not to worry so much about the number and do a smoke to see if they are turning out good food.  Good luck

 

[DivotMaker]

Hey Ravel, after installing the permanent probe on my smokers. On the number 3 mine was p=97 i=156 d=143. And on my #1 they were really different p=61 i=362 d=340. Which was strange as the AT was run at the same time and right next to one another. Tony/DivotMaker told me not to worry so much about the number and do a smoke to see if they are turning out good food.  Good luck

+1.  Either run a program with a dummy load to see if it is right, or smoke something.  Doesn't matter what the numbers are, if it works!

 

[CUTiger80]

Thanks for all of your comments and suggestions on the PID settings.
I decided to run another autotune with a little less sand and less cold water (the first dummy load was a pan full of sand and I pretty much saturated it with ice water).  The results were:
P=68
I=100
D=272
I decided to go ahead and perform the ultimate test, and that was to cook something.  That something was a 2 lb. meatloaf.
The smoker appeared to perform perfectly.  The temperature got to 230 much quicker with the 800 watt element than it had with the stock 700 watt element and it stayed dead on 230 degrees for the entire cook.  In fact, I never saw it waver even a single degree until I opened the door at 3-1/2 hours in to apply some BBQ sauce to the top of the meatloaf.
Overall I am very pleased with the new 800 watt element and would recommend it to anyone who still has the old 700 watt stock element.

 

[elkins20]

Hey Ravel, Sounds like you found your problem. And am glad the meat loaf turned out very good. And also the smoker never varied from 230 degrees. I have a recipe for Italian meatloaf  that I need to try and if it turns out will post it. But, basically you mix the meat then roll out on waxed paper about 1/2" thick. Then cover with mozzarella cheese to within an inch of the edges and roll up cupping the ends and sealing the bottom edge. When cut looks like a jelly roll with cheese. But, first will try to see if it is good b/4 posting.