Inconsistancy and lack of confidence

[TexasSMK]

Dave, are you using the wall mounted temperature probe?  If so, do you have the right probe for your model controller?  I know the current wall mounted probe advertised on the Smokin-It store sight is not the right probe, according to Auber, for the PIDs they sell.  I posted the following under Auber Instructions:  http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=1594.msg25125#msg25125

Dale, the one they sell is right for the model Auber they now sell.  You cannot interchange them; different plugs.  If he had the wrong probe, he wouldn't be able to use it.  The site has been corrected for awhile now:

http://www.smokin-it.com/PID_sensor_p/ws-sensor05.htm

Just reporting what I read in Auber site http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_28&products_id=99-- which is contradictory to what I see on the Smokin it site.  According to Auber Website the WS-Sensor11 is the right product for the PID I bought WSD-1200GPH, and the WSD-1500GPH.  I bought WS-Sensor11 for my WSD-1200GPH and have not had any issue to date. I will writer Auber to get a clarification.http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_28&products_id=447

 

[TexasSMK]

After re-reading and looking at the pictures--the photo of the sensor in the Smokin-it sight still has the part# for the WS-Sensor5--the picture appears to be of the WS-Sensor11.  I am tracking that if it plugs in it should work--probably has the 11.  I am out on this subject.  Best of Memorial days to all.

 

[CUTiger80]

I had some weird things with my Auber this weekend cooking butts.  First of all, I had (4) 9 lb butts in my SI#2.  Never done this many before and I was thinking that I might have "overloaded" it.  I was using both the permanent box probe and the meat probe.  I put the meat probe in one of the butts near the top and put my Maverick probe in one of the butts on the bottom and set the alarm for 165 deg (I wanted to wrap them at 165 and then finish the cook).  I clipped (with a small binder clip) the other Maverick probe to the top flange of the cooking grate support and angled the probe out into the box.  The permanent probe and the Maverick probe were probably 2-3" apart near the top of the smoker.  I set the Auber for 225 deg.  After about 2 hours, the Auber was reading about 205 degrees and the red lights on the Auber & the SI were on constantly indicating the the element was on constantly.  The weird thing was that the Maverick probe was reading about 245 deg.  I assumed that my permanent probe had become flakey.
According to the Maverick, the bottom butts reached 165 deg in 5 hours.  I pulled them all out and wrapped them.  I put the bottom butts on the top and vice versa.  This time, I put the Auber meat probe in one of the bottom butts and the Maverick probe in one of the top ones.  I set the Auber for 225 deg and programmed it to run until the meat temp reached 195 deg.  4 hours later this was the case and I took the butts out.
I then smoked some Mac & cheese and this time I put the Maverick probe through a ball of aluminum foil and placed it on the top rack.  This time the Maverick and the Auber were reading within a degree or two of each other.
This is not the first time that the Auber has seemed to work inconsistently.  When I first got it, it seemed to hold the temp within a degree or two.  The previous two smokes (ribs & salmon) the temp swing has been more like 10 degrees or so.
My plan is to remove the permanent probe from the SI, boil some water, plug the probe into the Auber and see if it is reading 212 (I'll check all of the probes including Auber meat probe and the Maverick probes to make sure that they are all reading correctly).  That way I'll know if my probes are accurate or not.
The next thing that I intend to do is put the permanent probe back into the SI and then do some test smokes with a "dummy load" of sorts.  What have you guys used for "dummy loads"?  I used a couple of concrete bricks wrapped in foil for calibrating the Auber.  Is there something that would be better?  Maybe a pan filled with wet sand?
Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[DivotMaker]

Ravel, I believe you experienced what you did by overloading the #2.  First, 4 x 9 lb butts in a #2??  Wow!  They had to be jammed in there pretty tight!  I think you most-likely restricted the heat flow to the wall sensor.  You had 36 lbs of cold meat between the heat source and your sensor...that's a pretty big heat block!  Also, that much meat was probably crowding, if not actually touching, your probe! 

When you smoked the mac & cheese, it worked fine, right?  Have you ever experienced this on anything else?  Next time, do 2 smokes for that much meat, or handle it the way you did, realizing that everything has its limits.  That's a whole lotta butt in a #2!   No need to remove the probe and test.  You said it was within a degree of the Maverick on the M&C, right?  It's fine.  Just do a few more reasonably-sized smokes and see if it works like normal.

 

[tnlyne]

After re-reading and looking at the pictures--the photo of the sensor in the Smokin-it sight still has the part# for the WS-Sensor5--the picture appears to be of the WS-Sensor11.  I am tracking that if it plugs in it should work--probably has the 11.  I am out on this subject.  Best of Memorial days to all.

I brought this up months ago? It still hasn't been fixed yet?

http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=2742.msg19722#msg19722

 

[tnlyne]

Dave-

Do you per chance plug your Auber into a GFCI electrical outlet? I have a HM PID and just found an issue resulting from ground loop noise affecting my PID probes. The HM creator just today created me a software fix to "cancel" out the noise and help my PID controller operate effectively. Just a thought of something to check.

 

[SuperDave]

Code here is that all outside outlets have to be on a GFI circuit.  So, the outlet that I plug into isn't the primary GFI but down stream in a GFI leg. 

 

[tnlyne]

Same here. I got my software fix from the HeaterMeter creator today and now my PID controller works like a champ! He was able to recreate my problem with a GFCI outlet at his house and that enabled him the ability to create a noise cancelling solution. I'm not sure Auber's have the same issue but I found it to be a very interesting problem.

 

[TexasSmoke]

My Auber is still acting weird on ribs.  I was going to go without it today but went ahead and used it since I was going to be around to watch it.

It just does not want to get to temp early in the smoke.  I was set for 225 and it did not get there until the very end. I have a wall mounted probe on the way so I will be curious if this will fix the issue.

Here are the stats from today:
(3) racks in the smoker on shelf #1 & #4.  Probe was between the racks.

2:30pm / 84
3:30 / 194
4:30 / 205
5:30 / 221
7:45 / 224

 

[CUTiger80]

Tony,
I am pretty much convinced that I overloaded it, but only due to the quantity of meat.  Lately I have been using the Bradley racks to more easily move food between the kitchen and the SI and back.  (2) 9 lb butts fit on one rack and there was 2-3" between the meat and the side walls of the smoker.  I made sure that the meat was not touching the Auber permanent probe.  It was probably a good 3-4" from it.  The measured difference between the Auber probe and the Maverick probe is what concerned me.  However, as I said earlier, when I smoked the mac & cheese, the 2 probes seemed to track pretty close.
I would like to test the system without cooking some meat because I have had some strange things occur with a small amount of salmon (2 lbs. or so) and 2 racks of ribs.  Is there a proven or recommended "dummy load" that I can put into the smoker that will act similar to meat (at least for a few hours) so that I can run some tests to see if things are working as they should before I get ready to smoke something to eat?  In the past, I have used 2 concrete bricks that are wrapped in foil. 

 

[SuperDave]

I'm of the opinion that bricks and bricks wrapped in foil make a poor dummy load.  We should be looking for something that can absorb heat.  I've been using a pan of damp sand.  (uncovered)

 

[SuperDave]

Seeing as how many of us are seeing the odd performance with ribs, I've begun to speculate that the ribs laying flat are blocking too much air flow.  For anyone interested, how about putting a Maverick probe below the ribs to see what the temp delta is between the space above and below the ribs when the Auber is giving the low readings? 

 

[CUTiger80]

Thanks Dave.
Do you try to chill the damp sand first to make it more like a piece of meat coming out of the fridge?
I think that your idea of putting temp probes above and below is a great one.  Two or four shallow foil boats with cool damp sand should look to the smoker like one or two racks of ribs as far as mass, temperature and physical volume go.  One or two 9x9 pans with cool damp sand should look one or two butts.
(This is what happens when you give an electrical engineer an electrical appliance and a programmable controller.)

 

[SuperDave]

I dampen the sand the night before and figure that the night time temps bring it down into the 50's.  I get up in the morning, have a cup of coffee and do my auto tune or test.

 

[Carp210]

Thanks Dave.
Do you try to chill the damp sand first to make it more like a piece of meat coming out of the fridge?
I think that your idea of putting temp probes above and below is a great one.  Two or four shallow foil boats with cool damp sand should look to the smoker like one or two racks of ribs as far as mass, temperature and physical volume go.  One or two 9x9 pans with cool damp sand should look one or two butts.
(This is what happens when you give an electrical engineer an electrical appliance and a programmable controller.)

I think you are right on target.  My best auto tune was done with a pan of wet sand that I scrapped off the back yard that was under my above ground swimming pool.  Sand was very wet and at a temp around 40 to 45 degrees.

 

[CUTiger80]

Since we we are not likely to see night time temps in the 50's here in the great South until sometime in October or November, I think that I will try to refrigerate the sand overnight. (I'm sure that my wife will love this, but hey, she married an engineer, so she should be used to goofy behavior by now.)

 

[SuperDave]

Hey engineer, tap water and a tray of ice cubes.  LOL!

 

[Carp210]

Seeing as how many of us are seeing the odd performance with ribs, I've begun to speculate that the ribs laying flat are blocking too much air flow.  For anyone interested, how about putting a Maverick probe below the ribs to see what the temp delta is between the space above and below the ribs when the Auber is giving the low readings?

Ribs blocking air flow may be part of the problem.  Since I am only cooking for two, with a SI#2, I have been cooking one rack cut in half.  On the top shelf I place a Maverick close to my fixed probe.  Ribs are on 2nd shelf with room between but I slide them forward too allow heat to rise up the back, more or less unrestricted.  On last thee rib smokes it hit target with little overun and locked on target.  Maybe multiple racks of ribs, using multiple shelfs, has something to do with how the heat reaches the probe creating strange currents within the smoker. 

It would be nice to document these problem cooks in detail with photo to see what they all have in common. Then compare them to others that never have a problem.

 

[TexasSmoke]

Is it possible that it's the increased surface area of the ribs that is causing the issue?  I was thinking this weekend that there is more surface area radiating cold than on a big hunk of meat.  Kind of like there is more breading on chicken nuggets vs a chicken breast.  The air has to move up and around all of this cold surface.

Would a better simulation be several socks full of cold wet sand vs one big hunk? 

 

[BedouinBob]

While I can see that multiple racks of ribs and greater surface area may cool the smoke, with the amount of airflow in the SI and the amount of space for the smoke to move, I am having a hard time coming to the conclusion that this is the issue. Not that I have a better idea......  :-\