Airflow

[BedouinBob]

Hey Funked Out, the 999F idea may be a cool idea to get around the overshoot prevention in the Auber. What are your thoughts on the 140 deg hold? Finish on the gasser or do you think because of the previous box temp the chicken will end up about 165?

 

[allmann]

do you crisp up the skin on the grill afterwards and does that dry it out?

 

[FunkedOut]

I am on the quest for great skin without having to resort to the grill or oven.  I'm sure that would work, but I would like to use just the smoker.  I have thought about hitting the skin with a torch to crisp it up.  That should have minimal impact on the meat.

I feel the same way about slow cookers.  If I have to sweat aromatics, or brown meat in a pan/pot, I'll just turn the heat down and finish it there.  Not many things I use a slow cooker for.  Beans are good.

My thoughts on the 140F hold...
This box holds heat too well to use a 140F hold on chicken.  A blower will help it cool down quicker, but probably not enough.  For this last smoke, I killed the heat 25F shy of target temp and the box was still to hot to keep the chicken in there without overshooting the target temp.
I'll keep trying to get it right with a butt or brisket from a lower temp, but temp sensitive cooks will be watched and pulled on time.

 

[DivotMaker]

Funk, you just experienced what I said might happen about reaching 350 before the chicken was done.  You have a long post, and a lot of issues.  I'm going to throw my 2¢ in, and then let you mod and tweak away, seeking the mythical crispy chicken skin in an electric smoker.

If you want to increase the ramp up speed of the Auber, go to YouTube and study how a P.I.D. controller works.  You'll find a number of good (but long) videos on what each value does, and how they effect each other.  I believe what you will find, in trying to achieve this, is a controller that will overshoot set temp and be hard to stabilize....but that's just my guess, as I would never attempt to super-charge my Auber (too expensive to burn up).

Using the 140 hold temp, for something like chicken, is a mistake - not what it's for.  Chicken cooks way too fast, and (as you now know), these boxes don't cool very fast!  If I use the 140 hold, on a large butt or brisket, I set my IT trigger 5° below target, and open the door for awhile when it hits it (to let the smoker cool to 140).  When I close it back up, it has to maintain 140, not cool down to it.

I could be wrong, but it appears you are trying to modify your Auber and smoker to achieve crispy chicken skin, above all else.  Is that the only thing you smoke?  All the drilling, fans, reprogramming, could lead to a smoker that really doesn't do anything else very well.  But, sounds like it will be a chicken smoking monster! 

I, too, was once obsessed with crispy chicken skin, so I feel your pain.  Here's my day of enlightenment, and I'm better now...

Day of Enlightenment

 

[FunkedOut]

great post, Dave, and great link.  appreciate the help.
I love the title of "chicken smoking monster!"  ;D

I've got a good handle on the PID.  I managed to get through school with an electrical engineering degree where I studied them intensively and implemented them for control of various lab projects. 
Best settings for a fast initial rise would be to max out P and zero out I and D, but then the temp swings would be just like with the original controller.  My reason for the auber is to hold a consistent temp and the programming steps, based on time and/or temp.  Best plan for me will be to leave the PID tuned to the system and use a set temp for the initial rise that is out of reach of the PID's interference (like I described above).

Agree with you on the 140F hold.  A keep warm oven is useful.  I was hoping to be able to figure out a trigger temp so that I could smoke a butt or brisket while away from the house and not overshoot the temp.  I may have to give up on that.  Although, I think that with a low smoking temp (220F) and a large piece of meat, it may be possible.  Example would be to smoke a butt overnight, go to work, and come home to the SI3 holding the butt at 140F with the butt having reached a max temp of 195F (or whatever you wish).

I have one more crispy skin attempt left in me.  With a fan, a quick temp rise, and leaving it there until IT hits 165F, I will either get there, or get my day of enlightenment! 

But trust me, everything I have done, has made this box more to my liking for chicken, ribs, butt and brisket.  The closer I move toward crispy skin, the happier I get with the bark on all the other cuts.

You haven't changed my mind, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate your thoughts.  That's why I post here.  To share and listen.

As far as the fan goes, I am hoping to use it in place of a jerky fan.  My thoughts are to push clean air in, rather than pull smoke out.  They both accomplish the same thing, only pushing clean, cold air will be easier on the fan that pulling hot smoke.
Once I get that installed, my smoked peppers should be easier to cold smoke.  I haven't posted about the hot sauce yet...

 

[elkins20]

Then there are some of us that do not care for chicken. But, once or twice a year will appease my wife and smoke chicken on one of the Weber's. I use the smokin-it for pork and beef. And hopefully will be able to smoke almonds soon as now have all the items needed to make seafood grills. Stainless steel 3/16 bar, and ss mesh cloth with 1/4" opening. Also seems like I read earlier in your post you was going to add 3/4" pipe to the rear hole to deter drippings out of the rear hole. Is that still in your thoughts?

 

[FunkedOut]

I hear what you're saying about the dripping at the rear hole, but it just doesn't happen.

and guess what....
it happened.  two chickens and I found drippings coming out of the rear hole when cleaning up today.
looks like the fan will be going in along with a bulkhead. :

 

[DivotMaker]

Glad you took that in the spirit it was intended, Funk!   It would be interesting to do a little testing of how long it takes the smoker to cool from 225 to 140, so you could trigger the change, and account for the temp where the meat is still cooking.  Like I said, I do it manually, by cooling the smoker quickly, but it would be nice to trigger a hold, and not overshoot the IT when you can't open the smoker.  Actually, I suppose if it cools below the IT of the meat, it wouldn't really be cooking more, so a 30-40° drop would likely be all you need.

 

[FunkedOut]

...It would be interesting to do a little testing of how long it takes the smoker to cool from 225 to 140, so you could trigger the change, and account for the temp where the meat is still cooking....

Ask an ye shall receive.
The data the chart is from when the inlet hole was 7/16" and the drip hole at 3/8"
I've since enlarged the inlet hole to 5/8"
Adding a fan will increase airflow further.
More airflow means it heats up slower and cools down quicker.

From this chart, 225F to 140F = exactly 1 hour
Also, 225F to 195F is 15 minutes.  That's promising.

 

[FunkedOut]

Enlarged the rear hole tonight to 7/8" so I could install a stainless 1/2" bulkhead.  This will solve the dripping issue that finally happened and give a way to pipe air in, attach a fan and install a valve as needed.

I found the bulkhead on eBay for $9 shipped from China.
It's got female NPT outside the smoker and straight 1/2" threads inside with a stainless washer and silicone gasket on either side of the smoker floor. A nut snugs it all down from the inside.

As is, there's a ~1/2" hole that won't drip. 
I have a few more pieces of stainless adapters and silicone hoses coming from China to get a fan piped in.
China is cheap and good enough, but not fast!

 

[FunkedOut]

Finally got all the bits from China and a chance to put it together.
I got a 23cfm fan that has a 15mm port for the airflow.
I got a 1/2" NPT male to 15mm barb fitting in 304 stainless to match the bulkhead.
I got 15mm ID food grade silicone hose and hose clamps.
I had a 12V power supply laying around from an old router.
Put the whole thing together for less than $30.

23cfm is not a lot of air, you can barely feel it coming out of the exhaust port.
I don't think this will be enough for making jerky.
I do think this will make great BBQ.
Now to give it a run.

 

[DivotMaker]

23cfm is not a lot of air, you can barely feel it coming out of the exhaust port.
I don't think this will be enough for making jerky.
I do think this will make great BBQ.

Yeah... As I've said before, I'm all in favor of experimentation and innovation, but this kind of appears like an exercise in futility.  Let us know if it really "improves" what most of us can already do in our SIs. 

If it's not enough air movement for jerky and such, what's the point?  I have smoked a ton of meat in my SIs, and have never felt like I needed more airflow, except for jerky.  Please, enlighten me!

 

[FunkedOut]

Futility?  Hardly.
I like BBQ.  I like it a certain way. 
When I bought this box, it didn't make BBQ that way.  It was too much like cooked in a slow cooker and not enough like cooked in a smoker.
The difference, airflow.  Good title for the thread. 
Every step I have taken, has been in the right direction.  My results are moving towards my liking.

As far as jerky is concerned, if this fan is not enough, there are stronger fans.
Gotta start somewhere.  I asked the community and SI's president for the cfm rating on the jerky fan; did not get an answer.  So this is my first stab.

Divot, at times you come across as if you feel I'm either trying to convince you that you need to do this, or I'm knocking the design and it needs correction.
Neither of those are the case.  I am sharing my journey because I came here to seek info that I did not find.

If you're happy with the results you're getting, you'd be foolish to change anything.

Hope that lights your candle.

 

[DivotMaker]

Divot, at times you come across as if you feel I'm either trying to convince you that you need to do this, or I'm knocking the design and it needs correction.
Neither of those are the case.  I am sharing my journey because I came here to seek info that I did not find.

If you're happy with the results you're getting, you'd be foolish to change anything.

Hope that lights your candle.

Not the case, at all, Funk.  I am merely playing devil's advocate for not needing to turn our smokers into Frankensmoker for them to work "properly!"  I don't want inexperienced potential owners to think they need to do all kinds of mods to these smokers to make them work "right," that's all.  You, obviously, are on a quest to produce BBQ that fits your very unique definition of "good BBQ," and I wish you nothing but success in doing so.  It's your smoker, and your time and money, so have good luck pursuing your end results!

I will add that I totally disagree with your assessment that it makes BBQ like it was cooked in a slow cooker.  If you are getting that result, it's your prep, not the smoker.  If everyone got that impression from their BBQ, I don't think Steve would constantly remain sold-out of his smokers.  The fact is, when meat is prepared properly, you can produce some of the finest BBQ anyone will ever eat, out of a totally stock SI smoker.  I went head-to-head on pulled pork, against a guy with a $10,000 custom-built offset stick burner, and won hands-down.  Just food for thought...  I know you have a ton of BBQ experience, so don't take that as a knock.  It's just a different smoker, that demands different methods, that's all.

 

[FunkedOut]

Fair enough.  Points taken.
I've got to try some of your pork.
That must be one helluva paint job! 

 

[DivotMaker]

Fair enough.  Points taken.
I've got to try some of your pork.
That must be one helluva paint job! 

Thanks Funk!  Healthy discussion is great, and all opinions are welcomed here! 

The paint job came out great, but would look better with your wheels!

 

[Big Red Home Smoker]

Glad you guys kissed and made up!  :-*  Almost thought we'd need to call in a moderator!  Fun to watch comments play out in this forum as everyone is very loyal to their methods/techniques and sometimes the written word can so easily be taken out of context.  You guys ended up handling this like true gentlemen.

 

[DivotMaker]

Hehe, yeah, Terry!   We've had some doozy "spirited" discussions, around here!  But, the cool thing about our forum is that no one gets personal!  Like you said, we all have methods/techniques that we are loyal to.  If you haven't noticed, I kind of like debating, and will defend my position with the veracity of a pit bull.  By the same token, I can be subject to change, given the right argument!  Convince me your position is more logical, and I'm all in! ;D