Weird seasoning issues on 2D

[RangerRick]

Hey all, did my homework, pulled the trigger and got one of these for my condo. I'm a WSM guy through and through, but no open flames are allowed at my condo so I picked this up as my replacement.

I'm familiar with most of the concepts of smoking, albeit this (my seasoning run) was my first experience with electric. I had a few interesting things occur:

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[*]It started up fine, ran, got some smoke (less than I was expecting) but held steady at 250 for 4 hours. Smoker box got pretty hot, I was surprised given all the comments I've read about insulation and it being safe to touch. I could touch it, but it wasn't very comfortable (on all sides).
[*]Opened it up, didn't seem like I had much in the way of seasoning. Opened the box, found the sample chunks I put in (two from the bag) almost completely intact and barely charred.
[*]Decided to run the seasoning run again. It just started, but now the controller switches to flashing green (intermittent element output vs steady) around 240 degrees. It will not get up to the 250 it is set to with either the internal probe or the additional one I put in. For something that claims +/- 3 degrees, this seems odd.
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Anyone have any suggestions or ideas? Not sure what is going on, but it doesn't seem right.

 

[old sarge]

Unplug the unit and, plug it back in and give it another try.  Unplugging is sort of a reset. Are you using an extension cord?  Some folks get pure ash, some just a lump of charcoal after a smoke.

 

[RangerRick]

Yeah, I'm pretty electronically inclined, so that was my first thought. Did it, no real change. It has been going for about 45 minutes now, I popped it open to see what was going on.

Tons more smoke this time (good sign) and the box is nowhere near as hot (also good) but the Auber doesn't seem to want to get above 245 when set for 250. My probe matches the Auber temp almost exactly.

After the first seasoning, the wood was still whole. No real indication of burning, so I'd be willing to say it did not have the "charcoal" effect.

For a test, I bumped it up to 300 and it did start to climb. I got it over 250 and then set it back to 250, it behaved as expected by turning off the element. I'll keep an eye on it as this progresses and post back how it goes.

 

[DivotMaker]

Hi Kris,

At 250, the smoker will be warm enough to the touch that you sure wouldn't want to sit on it, for any length of time, but it's not going to burn anyone, either, from a brief touch.  Was the smoker in the sun?  Usually, any time I hear someone talk about how hot it gets, they have the smoker in full sunlight.  The stainless metal will get MUCH hotter in the sun.  I keep mine on a covered porch, and avoid full, direct sunlight.  Temps stay more stable that way, too.

Do you have any pics of what your wood looked like, when finished?  Lots of times, you get smoke, but the wood will stay intact if the wood catches fire.  Drier wood may do this, especially in a new smoker.  If the wood is "intact," it may have combusted.  Are the sidewalls of the smoker a golden brown?  If so, then it's seasoned.  Remember, burning wood is bad, smoldering wood is good! 

One thing I really recommend to everyone is to get some good-quality smoking wood (good moisture content), and stay away from the big box store wood.  I really like Smokinlicious.com - best wood I've seen, bar-none!

 

[RangerRick]

Tony,

It was the sample stuff Steve sent - I haven't ordered my first batch yet, but I'll be getting some quality stuff going forward.

It may have been the sun - I'll keep an eye on it. Right now, it is having a lot of trouble staying up to temp. It is 62 out with a breeze and set at 250, it is sitting around 243. If I increase the temp, it will go up, but getting it to hold +/- 3 seems to be a challenge. Is this normal?

 

[DivotMaker]

Kris, I assume the box is empty, since you are seasoning.  If so, don't worry much about the temps during seasoning.  This will change when you have it set up to smoke meat.  There is nothing in there to absorb/hold heat, so it's kind of confusing for the controller.  Once you have a meat load, foil, water pan, shelves in there, it will work better. 

 

[RangerRick]

Well, the results are in. After an hour or so, it finally settled in at 250 and held the rest of the "second seasoning". I understand what you're staying about an empty box Tony, but it finally ended up holding.

When I opened up the smoke box, I did get a bit of a surprise. The back chunk was ash. The front chunk showed very little indication of use. It was darker, and I suppose it could have been combustion, but it doesn't seem like it.

Went to do my first pork butt tonight to try out cooking with the probe. It appears to be working, but again, temperature is a real issue. Set at 250 (I know, high, but was testing) I'm holding steady at ~215. The Auber out light is blinking on and off as if it were close to 250.

I'm really starting to think something is not right with this unit.

 

[RangerRick]

OK, now I'm starting to get frustrated.

Put a shoulder in set for 250. Set the probe cook for 190. Unit never goes above 225, probe claims it reached 190, pork is "done" but definitely not pullable. Bring it in, put my own temp in it and I get 170.

I've done a lot of smoking in my day and I admit, I usually don't mess with the electronics, but if I paid for them, I want them to do their job. Is there a calibration I can check on this controller? Something just doesn't seem right.

 

[Greenenvey]

Hi ranger,im  new here so I don't have a answer for you, but I do know these guys will help you get this sorted out, I know it must be very frustrating. But someone will be here soon I'm sure to help you figure this out. And from what i read yesterday there seems to be a way to calibrate the pids.

 

[rettaps]

hope this gets sorted out, maybe it has something to do with the autotuning on the PID controller,

 

[old sarge]

Here's hoping for a quick resolution.

 

[Greenenvey]

Ranger any luck on solving this issue?

 

[JackT]

Hi ranger,im  new here so I don't have a answer for you, but I do know these guys will help you get this sorted out, I know it must be very frustrating. But someone will be here soon I'm sure to help you figure this out. And from what i read yesterday there seems to be a way to calibrate the pids.

Kris, since you stated that your are a WSM fan, you got my attention. Love mine too. But, the PID is a different animal. Mine is the 3D, but otherwise works the same as yours. The WSM allows for lots of flexibility for adding wood, removing the lid for checking your meat or spritzing with apple juice, etc. The 2D or 3D is not meant to have the door opened much at all, and that might take some getting used to. In my experience with my 3D, I did have an issue with meat/drippings on the temp probe corrupting my temp readings, but once I figured that out, no problem since. It is also not at all unusual for the smoker to take an hour or more to get to temp. With my 3D, if I've set it to 250, it may go to 260 and then settle down to 250 and stay put. The green light will flash intermittently, as that is how the PID pulses the heating element and keeps the temp steady. This is a game of patience and can't be rushed. With my WSM, it is also common to cook at 250 or above and have to play with your airflow to modify temps, and that too can take time to respond. Hang in there and keep playing with it, as I'm sure that it will prove to work well for you. The 2D is different from what you know, but should prove well worth your investment. The folks here will assist with any issues until your got it figured out and are a happy camper. Hang in there!

 

[dibiase]

OK, now I'm starting to get frustrated.

Put a shoulder in set for 250. Set the probe cook for 190. Unit never goes above 225, probe claims it reached 190, pork is "done" but definitely not pullable. Bring it in, put my own temp in it and I get 170.

I've done a lot of smoking in my day and I admit, I usually don't mess with the electronics, but if I paid for them, I want them to do their job. Is there a calibration I can check on this controller? Something just doesn't seem right.

I agree with you that something is a little off.  I've had my 3D for about a month and have done 6 smokes and the temperature is always perfect.  I'd make sure the internal temperature probe is clean.  I've heard of getting dirty and causing issues.  Other than that If you do a quick search on the forum there is a way to run and auto tune on the controller.  Maybe it's a little off.  If all else fails you could call smokin it, i've heard they are great to work with.

 

[DivotMaker]

Kris,

I believe your issue boils down to PID settings.  The factory settings have been great, with the vast majority of owners, but sometimes a little tweaking is in order.  I recommend doing an autotune.  The process is not hard, but you need a couple of hours to do it.  Follow the instructions here:

How to Autotune

Essentially, you are "simulating" a cook, and the controller figures out the best settings for your smoker.  Several factors can effect tuning, and once you run an autotune, you'll probably be dead-on.  It's worth a shot, and isn't a big deal to do.

 

[RangerRick]

Sigh, and I'm back. I wanted to give myself the maximum time of testing and cooling off before writing this.

JackT, I appreciate the input, but once meat goes in, it stays closed until probes (mine and/or the unit's) report done.

dibiase and Divot, I had a call with Steve and did the autotune. There were huge changes in settings (incredibly drastic), Steve mentioned it might not have gotten the factory tune.

So, temperature wise, it holds steady now. It is correct, and works the way I would expect it to. However, I'm still getting extremely sub-par results with my cooks. I ordered wood from Smokinlicious, and I'll refer you to the attached picture. BEFORE anyone goes and tells me I used too much wood, I know, and I've tried it with one, two and three pieces for experimentation's sake.

At the back of the unit you see the wood burns to ash. At the front of the unit (and really anything just in front of the very back of the smoker) everything turns black but never smokes.

While the temps are now steady, I'm also seeing weird results with my food. I wish I had saved a graph to you show you, but I'm getting zero stall in any of my food. Even brisket (10lb+), it goes from 0 to 195 in a perfectly straight line (at 225 degrees) in about an hour and a half. This thing is defying a law of physics or something.

I don't know what to do. I really want to just sell this thing and be done with it, but I keep reading about how much everyone on here loves it. Sigh.

 

[old sarge]

While the temps are now steady, I'm also seeing weird results with my food. I wish I had saved a graph to you show you, but I'm getting zero stall in any of my food. Even brisket (10lb+), it goes from 0 to 195 in a perfectly straight line (at 225 degrees) in about an hour and a half. This thing is defying a law of physics or something.

I see why you are perplexed.  195 IT in an hour and a half is unbelievably fast. An hour to 1 1/2 per lb is average.  Were your probes centered in the meat or could they possibly have been in too shallow or too deep? Have you used an instant read thermometer to verify the final IT?

Looking at your included picture I would expect mostly ash at a steady 225 regardless of wood placement.  Does your element glow red from end to end or only in spots? (Only takes a minute to verify).

Is there any chance of a loose connection in the controller or down at the element that could shift as the unit heats up?  While this takes a little disassembly, it might prove worthwhile.

Keep up posted on what you find. - Dave

 

[DivotMaker]

Kris, if your meat probe is going to 195 in an hour and a half, it is either bad, or the tip is too close to a shelf or exposed heat in the smoker.  Usually, this problem turns out to be probe placement, but may not be in your case.  With your smoking experience, you know that there is absolutely NO way that a pork butt, or brisket, can get to 195 in 1/5 hours, unless you're smoking it at about 800°!!

Have you asked Steve about a probe replacement?  Might be a place to start.  As for the wood locations, it seems you would want to stick with middle-back on your chunks.  Fortunately, we don't use that much wood, and everyone has their own hot spots.  Mine, on the 3D, are middle 1/3.  I don't see that as a problem, so much as knowledge of where to place your wood to get maximum smoke.  No electric element is perfect, so learning the characteristics of yours is important!

Seems to me, the only issue you need to work out is why your meat temp probe is showing such a rapid rise in temp.

 

[RangerRick]

Ok, decided to go nuts on testing today. Wired up four probes; they're labeled in the picture but from top to bottom they are: closest to the element, 1/3 up, 2/3 up (also closest to the internal 2D probe), top (smoke hole).

Set the unit for 300, completely empty (no racks, no smoke box, nothing). See the attached results. It did pretty much exactly what it should have done. 2D probe reads 300, my probe #3 (closest to the 2D probe) also reads 300. Willing to admit there appears to be a +/- of 5 degrees on my probe #2 (it is older) but it is still pretty close.

The element itself feels like it has a hotspot at the back of the unit (right where the ashed chunk was in my last post), but I can't see it in the light of day. Anyone have any good ideas on how to check this?

So that said.....it should be doing what it is supposed to. I'm going to go buy some meat, hook up the probes and post the results.

 

[NDKoze]

My element definitely has a hot spot in the rear. You should be able to fire it up in the evening and you should be able to see the element get red.