nmber 2 can't get to heat

[40 caliber]

I tried cooking 6 racks of baby backs in my SI2 a month ago. I started early and it was around 12 degrees. it got to about  40 degrees outside by time I finished. The SI2 was set at 250 and the box temp could not get over 190 degrees. 

I was using the 2-2-1 method but decided to go 3-2-1. after 3 hours the temp wasn't getting better so I pulled 2 full racks out. (I had a bunch of guests on the way! OMG)  With 4 racks the SI2 did the job and delivered. I followed up after and finished the other 2 racks. I didn't really need them for that meal but since I was cooking I figured I would make some left overs.

this leads me to a couple questions.
1. I have read some people experiencing heat issues. the ribs only weighed 20lbs  so the SI2 should have been able to do it based on what it is rated for right? is the capacity really that low?

2. I am thinking of upgrading to a 3. would a 3D solve the problem? my understanding is the Auber only helps keep it in a range. if the heater can't get you there (in a 2) the auber wont make that difference.

 

[DivotMaker]

First, Tom, forget about the "weight" rating of these smokers...that's just an advertising thing that everyone uses.  Think of volume, not weight.  Depending on how you had your ribs arranged, 6 racks in a #2 is pretty cramped, and will block a lot of air/heat flow.  Plus, your box probe placement may very well have been giving a false reading.  Probe placement can really effect the reading...try moving it around some time and see what happens!  Were you using a vertical rib rack, or were they all laid flat on the racks?  I use 3 shelves to smoke 3 racks in the #2; 1 rack cut in half on each.  This allows for good airflow around the ribs.

Your element can certainly do that much meat, even in 12°, but not if you smother it with large slabs of ribs, and cut off the circulation.

 

[parkgt]

Your element can certainly do that much meat, even in 12°, but not if you smother it with large slabs of ribs, and cut off the circulation.

DM,

I don't understand what circulation has to do with heat in a smoker with an electric element.  If the probe is seeing a temp lower than the called for 250 degrees shouldn't the element be on and continuing to raise the temperature until it reaches the set point.

 

[old sarge]

Meat closest to the heating element will receive the most heat as it rises. Not all of it but most of it. Over time, the cabinet will reach temperature equilibrium and all will be well.  Spacing out or staggering the ribs (or any meat for that matter) from shelf to shelf (think zig zag) allows for better heat circulation.  Rib racks can help in this regard as the ribs are on their side in a vertical mode with spacing between for the heat to pass through.

 

[40 caliber]

Hi tony,
thanks for the thoughts. to your comments
1. I had bought the additional rack so I had 5 racks in the box. Each rack of ribs was cut in half and pushed to the forward inside position laying flat just as you stated.
2. the one additional rack was cut in half and sat on the back half of 2 different racks. there was plenty of space between them but I don't know how much airflow is required.

3. it was a month ago, I don't recall if the light  stayed on. I think it cycled up and down according to my maverick 733

Would the rib rack have helped? I have one but did not use it as I thought I had enough room on the racks. I had also read rib racks  were not optimal but can't recall why.

have you had good luck with a rib rack old sarge? How many full racks have you done in your 3?

 

[CUTiger80]

Tom,
I am curious where your temperature probe was during this smoke.  You mention using a Maverick, so I am assuming that you were using the stock controller with a Maverick probe to read the temp of the smoker box.  Was the Maverick probe anywhere near the stock temperature probe?  (It has always seemed strange to me that the stock probe is near the middle of the box, yet when a remote probe such as a Maverick or Auber is installed it always goes near the top.)
When you noticed that the box temp was not rising, did you try to change the temp setting with the control knob on the top?
With everything working correctly, I would have guessed that the internal temp probe was satisfied that it was approximately 250 degrees at its location (not necessarily up at the top of the box) so it was cycling the element on and off.  It also could be that since your ribs were pulled close to the front of the box, all of the heat was rising up along the back wall (where the internal probe was located) and not rising uniformly up through the box and the rib racks.
I do agree with Tony that 6 full racks is a lot in the SI2.  I only have 4 shelves in mine and I usually try to stick with one rib rack (cut in half) per shelf to allow for even smoke and heat flow up through the box. 
I did recently purchase the 800W replacement element for the SI2 and I have noticed a world of difference in how fast it gets up to temp and how well it stays regulated.  I would recommend spending $33 for one of these.  It only takes about 30 minutes to install.  And, you'll have a spare element should the unthinkable happen in the middle of a smoke.
On a side note, I love "The Dragon" and try to drive it several times a year, but not on a bike, in my Vette.

 

[Walt]

I have cooked as many as 9 racks in my #2 at a time with no issues. It not a capability issue.

 

[DivotMaker]

I have cooked as many as 9 racks in my #2 at a time with no issues. It not a capability issue.

I agree, Walt!  You definitely hold the record, 'round these parts, for the most clowns in a VW! ;D ;D  Can you refresh us on how you stuffed that many ribs in a #2?  Seems I remember you had good circulation, using the rib racks.

 

[40 caliber]

Ravel
yes, my probe was on the top rack. everything I have read said that is where the heat is consistent. I have thought that since  not near the actual box probe, the placement could have mattered. There is no mistaking that I was not getting enough heat. I have done 7 rib smokes before this and the ribs were still a little soggy, not the dry pre-bark look I am used to seeing on all my previous smokes .

the placement forward may have caused a problem. I have found that is the best placement to cook my ribs when I do 4.

I have a rib rack but didn't use it. I read here  (tony) that standing the ribs on the side causes a dryer rib and other quality issues.  what are other peoples experiences? I thought I could fit the  6 racks (12 half racks) on 5 shelves  flat so I figured that was better than a rib rack.

I defer to the experts, school me up please!

 

[DivotMaker]

Tom, I don't see an issue with placement, if you did 2 half-racks per shelf (that's how I do them, flat, bone-side down); plenty of room for airflow around them.  I just wanted to make sure you weren't jamming them side-to-side, with no space.

How old is your SI 2?  190, if your temp probe was accurate, is below where the bottom of the temp swing should be at 250.  As I'm sure you know, the stock controller will not hold 250 precisely, but will "average-out" to the set temp.  How long did you cook this batch?

Also, I notice you said you use the 3-2-1 method.  My honest opinion is this is part of your problem.  First of all, you have to do a lot of door opening to get all that wrapping & unwrapping done.  Secondly, this is why you're getting soggy bark!  Next time you do ribs, try the "no peeky" method that so many of us use.  All that wrapping just isn't necessary in the SIs because they hold/retain moisture so well.  Put in a water pan, ribs, wood, close the door and set the temp...then don't open that door for at least 4.5 hours!  3 racks of back ribs usually take me around 5:15 - 5:45, depending on when they finish to my liking. 

I would do a batch of ribs, like that, and see what your temp does.  Also, if you have an older SI 2, upgrading to the 800w element is a good thing.

 

[40 caliber]

HI Tony,
I have used the 2-2-1 method 6 times with great results. the smoker is only 6 months old and I agree does swing when cooking. With 6 racks , however, this time it never swung above 190 . I believe it  was the amount of meat or external temp because when I pulled 2 racks (back to 4) then the smoker heated as normal. I have cooked ribs twice again (fewer than 6 ) and the results were good. It just seems not to work with the ribs flat and 12 halfs spread out in the smoker.

what I meant about the ribs being soggy was that when I usually open the door after 2 hours the ribs are dry. (long before foiling). instead they didn't have the same pre-bark dry look.

I will try the no peek method as I am curious.  if the results are the same. if they are, why bother with all that foiling and basting ?

 

[DivotMaker]

Tom, it may be possible that one of your slabs might have been blocking the thermocouple in the back of the smoker...I don't know, but it started heating normally when you removed a couple of racks.  Might have just been an anomaly! 

I started out trying all of the "traditional" BBQ methods (foiling, spritzing, etc...), but soon realized that we have very unique smokers.  We don't have to counter the effects of a heat source that inherently dries the meat (wood or charcoal), and it is a very tight (little airflow) environment.  Add a water pan to the floor, next to the smoke box, and keep that door closed.  You'll get better bark, and moist meat!  And, best of all...a LOT less work!  Fits into my Lazy Q lifestyle quite nicely! 8)

 

[NDKoze]

I love the bark whether it be on ribs, pork butt, or brisket, so foil NEVER touches my meat while in the smoker. I do double foil wrap and rest my butts for 2-4 hours after I pull from the smoker. Otherwise foil is only used to line the bottom of my smoker and the smoke box.

 

[40 caliber]

ok, Tony, great, I will give it a try. I love to have an excuse to cook more ribs! 

 

[DivotMaker]

ok, Tony, great, I will give it a try. I love to have an excuse to cook more ribs! 

All in the name of objective experimentation, of course!

 

[Smoken]

Tom, I don't see an issue with placement, if you did 2 half-racks per shelf (that's how I do them, flat, bone-side down); plenty of room for airflow around them.  I just wanted to make sure you weren't jamming them side-to-side, with no space.

How old is your SI 2?  190, if your temp probe was accurate, is below where the bottom of the temp swing should be at 250.  As I'm sure you know, the stock controller will not hold 250 precisely, but will "average-out" to the set temp.  How long did you cook this batch?

Also, I notice you said you use the 3-2-1 method.  My honest opinion is this is part of your problem.  First of all, you have to do a lot of door opening to get all that wrapping & unwrapping done.  Secondly, this is why you're getting soggy bark!  Next time you do ribs, try the "no peeky" method that so many of us use.  All that wrapping just isn't necessary in the SIs because they hold/retain moisture so well.  Put in a water pan, ribs, wood, close the door and set the temp...then don't open that door for at least 4.5 hours!  3 racks of back ribs usually take me around 5:15 - 5:45, depending on when they finish to my liking. 

I would do a batch of ribs, like that, and see what your temp does.  Also, if you have an older SI 2, upgrading to the 800w element is a good thing.

Great info I'm seasoning my SI2 as I'm typing the ribs are going in tomorrow Thanks