Newbie. Need some advise

[JD]

JD here,
Just purchased a #3 last week. Did a couple racks of ribs with the "Memphis Dust" rub I saw on the forum, and also did the no peek 5 hour uncovered smoke. Over my oven or my gas grill this was awesome, but I need some help to get where I'd like to go. Can anyone help me with the following?

? My first try was not fall off the bone, and slightly dry. How do I fix that?
? I'm reading all over the place methods. Some leave uncovered first 1-2 hours, then wrap in aluminum, some uncovered for 4hr then put on sauce. Some spray apple juice at some point. SOme cover in mustard and then do the rub. In short, I don't know jack at this point, and need help!!

I'm doing ribs and chicken this Sunday for 9 people. If I put both in together will the chicken be done before the ribs? Do I put the ribs below the chicken so I don't get drippings all over the chicken. (Or would that be a good thing?) Do I use the same rub (Memphis Dust) on both?  I could go on, but I'll take all the advise you can give me to kick start my journey with my #3.

 

[The_Mexicutioner]

Welcome to the forum and congrats on the purchase of your #3.  We were all noobs at some point and wondered about the same things you feel lost on.  I still consider myself a noob and I've had my #3 for almost 2 years smoking 2-3 times a month year round.  What kind of ribs did you smoke and what temps did you use?  Did you keep tabs on the temps throughout the entire cook.  I have tried baby backs and St. Louis spareribs and preferred the St. Louis cut.  They were more moist and flavorful than the baby backs.  I have never had dry spareribs come out of my #3.  You get "fall off the bone" ribs by doing the 3-2-1 method for spareribs or 2-2-1 for baby backs, which essentially steams the ribs in foil midway through the cook then finishing them unwrapped for the last hour.  I think most folks who use this method add apple juice in the foil to create the steam.  I personally don't like my ribs to fall apart when I'm holding them so I just let them cook unwrapped for the entire 5-6 hours.  I have yet to try the mustard base but I think I will try it next time.  I make sure to remove the membrane before I do anything else.  Then I usually just trim the excess fat cover the surface in canola oil (spray) and sprinkle the dry rub over both sides.  Most of the time I'll let them sit in the fridge overnight but I've also went straight from the counter to the smoker and the difference is very minimal to me.  When I make ribs and chicken thighs or drumsticks for the same meal, I let the ribs cook for 3 hours before I put the chicken in.  The chicken hits 165-170 degrees close to when the ribs get a nice bark.  For breasts, I usually inject them with brine and use the Maverick thermometer to monitor the temp.  I pull them out when they hit 160 degrees.  I always cook at 225 degrees unless I'm only cooking poultry,  which I cook at 250.  My ribs always go above the chicken and I always use the same rub for both.  If you continue getting dry meat, try adding a pan of water to the lowest rack but I only did that when smoking a whole turkey and I don't even think it had any effect on the outcome.  Good luck and keep us posted on your results.

http://bbq.about.com/od/ribs/a/aa122306a.htm

 

[The_Mexicutioner]

I have tried and like Meathead's Memphis Dust but I prefer a modified version of this one:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/rib-dry-rub-recipe.html#!

I use about 3/4 the salt and 1/8 the cayenne pepper (kids thought the original recipe was too hot and it was definitely too salty).

 

[DivotMaker]

Hi JD!  Congrats on a great purchase!  Lots of good times ahead with your #3!

Don't feel overwhelmed, as we were all new to this at one point.  Smoking in these types of smokers is definitely different from a lot of the "traditional" methods; they hold moisture much better, plus they take very little wood to get a great smoky flavor, and the meat isn't overwhelmed by the flavor of the "heat" (like charcoal).  I find this allows us to focus on the prep and seasoning, and lets us make some really stellar Q (with a LOT less effort than the traditional smokers).

One thing I would recommend is to go over to the recipe section on this forum, find a recipe/method that looks good, and try to duplicate it as close as possible.  We have many successful smokes there that are specific to our smokers.  The "one size fits all" sites will get you confused with too many methods.  Keep it simple.

To give you educated answers to your first question about the ribs, we need a little more info.  I see Memphis dust and 5-hour no peek, but the following will help:
 
What kind of ribs? 
What was your preparation (any binder, like yellow mustard? Did you remove the silver skin? Did you leave in the fridge overnight with the rub on them?) 
Did you use a water pan? 
Did you open the smoker door? 
What kind of wood and how much?

The more details we have, the better we can help.

As for the "fall off the bone" tenderness, you just needed more time.  The 5-hour mark is just a guideline, depending on your ribs.  I usually do 3 racks of baby backs at a time (that's how they come from Sam's Club, which are really meaty ribs), and they usually take 5.5-5.75 hours.  I start checking them at around 5 hours, then go another 20-minutes at a time until done.  You can check them with a wooden toothpick; stick it in between the bones and feel the tenderness, then pull sideways to see if the meat pulls from the bone.  This method works great.  I have never smoked a rib that didn't leave a clean bone when done!

Moisture is key for meat like ribs, pork butts and briskets, but not necessary for whole chickens or turkey.  They have a skin on them, so they just don't absorb the moist air.  The preferred method for poultry is to brine them.  Check out the brine and poultry boards for ideas.  I have a couple on there that work well.  For moisture on ribs and such, I use a disposable aluminum "mini loaf" pan from WalMart.  They hold enough apple juice, have good surface area, and tuck in nicely on the floor of the smoker next to the smoke box.  Don't put it on a shelf - put it on the bottom so it gets hot enough to boil.

In regards to your question about cooking chicken and ribs at the same time:  It's always tough to smoke dissimilar meats at the same time, as they cook differently.  A whole chicken will take around 4 hours to reach 165 internal temp, and the ribs will take longer.  I cook these at different temps, too.  Chicken gets 250 and ribs get 235.  I know lots of folks do, but I never cook 2 totally different meats that require different methods at the same time.  Just me, though.  I would probably smoke the ribs first, wrap them in foil and place in the oven set to 140 to hold while the chicken smokes.  Others that smoke these kinds of different meats at once (hopefully) will add their nickels-worth of advice.

Also, do you have a good remote thermometer to monitor internal temp?  You'll need one for the chicken.  Except for ribs and jerky, I always cook by internal temp, not time.

I know this is long, but we're here to help!  Spend some time reading the posts in the recipes, and you'll learn how to make some great Lazy Q! 8)

 

[JD]

Thanks for the advise Mexicutioner and Divotmaker!  It appears I need to buy an internal thermometer so I can confirm the accuracy of the dial on top.
TO answer some of your questions back to me.
(1) I'm not sure, but I think baby backs. I buy them at the local "Martins." grocery. Vac packed. (THe guy behind me at the office mentioned the Sam's 3 pak this morning. I'll try that.
(2) I do pull off the membrane.
(3) I did not use oil or mustard to bind the rub, and only did the rub before I put them in the smoker. I'll do the oil or mustard Sunday. (Someone here said the mustard flavor goes away as the ribs smoke. Mustard seems weird, but I see it repeatedly as a reference)
(4)I did not use water or apple juice, but I think maybe I'll try the water this time. Someone here at work cautioned me on the apple juice saying that if it all evaporates and only the residue is left it will burn and give the meat a bad flavor.
(5) THis 2-2-1 method sounds interesting. I gather that means 2hr uncovered to absorb the smoke, 2 hours wrapped to keep the ribs moist, and last hour uncovered to keep a good bark. Do you guys recommend doing a sauce on the ribs the last hour? IF so would you take the aluminum foil off completely, or just unwrap and sauce??
(6) I used two pieces of the hickory fat dowel like wood John gave me when I picked up the smoker. Each about 2 inches long. I can see where too much wood is not what you want. I may actually use a little less this weekend.
THanks again for the help. I can use all you want to give me. JD

 

[swthorpe]

MY COMMENTS/SUGGESTIONS ARE IN BOLD....LET US KNOW HOW YOU MAKE OUT!

1) I'm not sure, but I think baby backs. I buy them at the local "Martins." grocery. Vac packed. (THe guy behind me at the office mentioned the Sam's 3 pak this morning. I'll try that.  THEY WERE PROBABLY BABY BACKS.
(2) I do pull off the membrane.  GOOD--THIS IS AN IMPORTANT STEP...I HAVE MY BUTCHER TAKE CARE OF THIS.
(3) I did not use oil or mustard to bind the rub, and only did the rub before I put them in the smoker. I'll do the oil or mustard Sunday. (Someone here said the mustard flavor goes away as the ribs smoke. Mustard seems weird, but I see it repeatedly as a reference)  USE SOMETHING TO BIND THE RUB...I USE OLIVE OIL, BUT OTHERS RECOMMEND MUSTARD.  I LIKE TO RUB THEM THE NIGHT BEFORE SO THEY GET HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY!
(4)I did not use water or apple juice, but I think maybe I'll try the water this time. Someone here at work cautioned me on the apple juice saying that if it all evaporates and only the residue is left it will burn and give the meat a bad flavor.  TRY A LITTLE LOAF PAN OF APPLE JUICE...I HAVE NEVER SEEN IT EVAPORATE.  BUT ONLY DO THIS IF YOU ARE GOING FOR THE NO PEAK METHOD.  OTHERWISE, YOU ADD THE APPLE JUICE IN THE FOIL.
(5) THis 2-2-1 method sounds interesting. I gather that means 2hr uncovered to absorb the smoke, 2 hours wrapped to keep the ribs moist, and last hour uncovered to keep a good bark. Do you guys recommend doing a sauce on the ribs the last hour? IF so would you take the aluminum foil off completely, or just unwrap and sauce??  I WOULD SUGGEST TRYING IT EACH WAY.  WHEN I DID THE 2-2-1 METHOD, I WOULD APPLY BBQ SAUCE ON THE LAST HOUR UNCOVERED.
(6) I used two pieces of the hickory fat dowel like wood John gave me when I picked up the smoker. Each about 2 inches long. I can see where too much wood is not what you want. I may actually use a little less this weekend.  I WOULD SUGGEST 4# OF HICKORY...I AM NOT SURE ABOUT THE WEIGHT OFTHE DOWELS.

 

[DivotMaker]

JD, I'll follow Steve's lead on the answers:

(1) I'm not sure, but I think baby backs. I buy them at the local "Martins." grocery. Vac packed. (THe guy behind me at the office mentioned the Sam's 3 pak this morning. I'll try that.  The Sam's baby backs are the bomb.  Always really meaty and big.
(2) I do pull off the membrane.  Excellent.  This is a must on baby backs, especially.  Sometimes hard on spares, depending on how they're cut.
(3) I did not use oil or mustard to bind the rub, and only did the rub before I put them in the smoker. I'll do the oil or mustard Sunday. (Someone here said the mustard flavor goes away as the ribs smoke. Mustard seems weird, but I see it repeatedly as a reference)  I love using mustard as a binder.  The mustard taste completely goes away.  I know it sounds weird, but it does.  I believe mustard helps hold moisture, and makes better bark than other binders (IMO).
(4)I did not use water or apple juice, but I think maybe I'll try the water this time. Someone here at work cautioned me on the apple juice saying that if it all evaporates and only the residue is left it will burn and give the meat a bad flavor.  No offense to your friend, but you won't see your water pan evaporate completely in these smokers, unless you only put a tiny bit of liquid in them.  I use the mini loaf pans, about 1/2 full (not 1/2 empty ), and have never had one go empty - even on 12+ hour smokes.  No worries - go with the apple juice.
(5) THis 2-2-1 method sounds interesting. I gather that means 2hr uncovered to absorb the smoke, 2 hours wrapped to keep the ribs moist, and last hour uncovered to keep a good bark. Do you guys recommend doing a sauce on the ribs the last hour? IF so would you take the aluminum foil off completely, or just unwrap and sauce??
I have used both methods, and greatly prefer the "no peek" method.  First, the 3-2-1 or 2-2-1 method is a) too much work. b) unnecessary for tenderness and moisture, and c) inhibits really good chewy bark.  If you prep the ribs right (rub/rest wrapped in the fridge overnight), and use a water pan, you will have moist, tender ribs. I believe opening the door as many times as it takes for wrapping/unwrapping slows the process too much (for me, at least).  Also, saucing in the last hour is totally a personal preference.  My family prefers Memphis-style dry rub ribs, add the sauce while eating.  If you like ribs with caramelized sauce, add sauce while cooking.  Either way, the "no peek" method works for both.  Just add the sauce in the last hour, so you only open the door once. 
(6) I used two pieces of the hickory fat dowel like wood John gave me when I picked up the smoker. Each about 2 inches long. I can see where too much wood is not what you want. I may actually use a little less this weekend.  By a kitchen scale.  Most (pretty much all) of us weigh our wood.  2 1/2 - 3 oz is plenty for ribs.  The hickory dowels weigh about .68 oz per inch (I actually tested this), so about 3 1/2" of total length will be about 2 1/2 oz.  You could go with 4" and be ok, too.
THanks again for the help. I can use all you want to give me. JD  You're welcome!  We all started out with lots of questions!  That's what I love about this forum; we all help each other a great deal!

One more thing:  DEFINITELY get a good thermometer!  This is a MUST.  I recommend the Maverick ET-732 or ET-733.  Great units, dual probes, and remote viewing capability.  Fits my Lazy Q lifestyle.

 

[rickne]

I have a little different philosophy.  K.I.S.S. (keep it simple and stupid).

Not that all of that doesn't work, but you can produce good cue without a lot of complexity.  In KCBS competition, you have about 12hours between the time your raw butts and brisket are inspected and the time you put it in the cooker.  There is mighty find bbq being produced at those events.  Inject and rub in the morning.  In the cooker that night.

My opinion....  cooking temps, cook length, and internal temp are 90% of the equation.

A good thermometer is a must.