Hoping Second Brisket is Better. Help?

[Jumanji]

Did my first brisket about a year ago.  10 lb packer, cooked at 225 deg to 195 deg internal temp in the point.  Finished in cooler wrapped in foil for about an hour.  Flat was a bit dry, and point was juicy.  Since then I have done mostly ribs, and a couple of prime ribs, and they were all fantastic.

So now I am back to brisket.  Purchased a beef brisket whole USDA prime - 17.39 lbs.  Have a 3D, so it should fit.  At 1.5 hrs per lb, that's a 26 hour cook, plus a couple of hours to rest in foil.  So am thinking about bumping up the temp to 260 deg, as some have pointed out.  Cook time for that will be around an hour per lb?  Will that more likely yield a moist, tender brisket?

I frankly can do any temp, for any time period.  I'm not set on when it needs to be served.  What I'd like is some advice on how to make this a great brisket.  I'm starting with a great cut, albeit maybe a bit big.  Soooo:

How long do I need to let set with dry rub?
Smoker internal temperature and expected cook time to what temp (190 deg?)
Where should I place the probe - flat or point?
Fat side up or down?

Anything else that can make this a success?  I love Texas brisket, and have a brother and father that are championship BBQ level (with stick burners, foiled to finish, etc.)  Would like to serve something well-cooked to my wife.  Appreciate any help you experienced brisket cookers can provide.

Michael

 

[old sarge]

Michael - I do 225/230, fat side down, probe in the point.  I inject the flat because it will hit 190/195 quicker than the point.  I also inject the point.  Fat side down allows the fat that has not been tried off to protect the meat from the heat below. I take the fat trimmings and place on top.

If I do fat side up, I use a jacquard to tenderize the meat and to allow fat to seep into the meat.  I still inject the flat and leave the point alone.  The dry rub is the same no matter which way I place the meat.  It goes on an hour or two before going into the smoker.  Using a jacquard allows some rub to penetrate the meat. Just keep in mind poking a great many holes in the meat does nothing to retain moisture.

The packer will fit the 3D quite nicely.

Good luck.

 

[Jumanji]

Thanks Sarge.  I did a search and found my old post: https://www.smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=5909.0  In hindsight, I might have trimmed off just a bit too much fat, and I had the temp probe in the point that probably overcooked the flat.  It looks like the post-cook recommendation on that was to put the probe - I only have the one - into the thickest part of the flat, and cook to 195 deg.  I don't have injection, nor a separate thermo.  Maybe those are items I should have before the next brisket.

I also read where people say to cook the flat to 195 deg, and the point to 200 to 205 deg.  How do you do that when smoking a whole packer?  Seems like the point will always be lower temp, since it is a thicker side of the packer?

So concensus appears that last time I had the probe in the point, cooked to 195 deg IT, and that probably yielded a flat that was overcooked and dry.  Make sense?  Although I recorded a lot of stuff last time - on my first brisket smoke - I didn't write down what the flat and point probed afterwards with my Thermopen.

 

[Jumanji]

This is what I have to work with.  Prime cut, 17.4 lbs.  It bends in half pretty easily.  There are a couple of hard points of fat that I will trim off, on the outside.  Last time I might have trimmed too much fat, so this time will err on keeping more.  It's a big piece of meat.  I assume the flat is on the top side, and really doesn't have any fat.  And the point is on the bottom side.  Really hard to tell whether there is a lot of fat between the point and the flat, and I don't plan to cut them apart.  So with what I've shown, where would you place the probe?

 

[Jumanji]

Hey, last-minute question for some of you guys or gals that trim the fat.  Do you place the excess fat trimmings on top of the flat to add some juice?  I suspect it might make presentation not quite as pretty, and mess up some of the bark?

 

[LarryD]

Hey, last-minute question for some of you guys or gals that trim the fat.  Do you place the excess fat trimmings on top of the flat to add some juice?  I suspect it might make presentation not quite as pretty, and mess up some of the bark?

I've seen folks talk about doing it and liking it.  I did it once and didn't get a strong feeling that it hurt or helped either way, so I don't do it any more.

 

[Jumanji]

Thanks LarryD.  And I need to apologize to OldSarge.  I just read his post again, and its says he puts fat trimmings on top.

 

[Meatball]

Michael - I do 225/230, fat side down, probe in the point.  I inject the flat because it will hit 190/195 quicker than the point.  I also inject the point.  Fat side down allows the fat that has not been tried off to protect the meat from the heat below. I take the fat trimmings and place on top.

If I do fat side up, I use a jacquard to tenderize the meat and to allow fat to seep into the meat.  I still inject the flat and leave the point alone.  The dry rub is the same no matter which way I place the meat.  It goes on an hour or two before going into the smoker.  Using a jacquard allows some rub to penetrate the meat. Just keep in mind poking a great many holes in the meat does nothing to retain moisture.

The packer will fit the 3D quite nicely.

Good luck.

Fat trimmings on the top...…. that is very interesting

 

[Jumanji]

Well, it went into the smoker at 1 pm yesterday.  I watched cook times, and the internal temp stalled at 173-176 deg between 10 pm and 1 am.  I went to bed shortly thereafter.  Set my watch for 5 am (pre time change), and temp was up to 190 deg.  At 6:11 am (5:11 am), it hit 195 deg.  I probed it with the Thermopen, and the thinnest part of the flat came in around 199-200, the middle of the packer at 195, and the lowest temp I could get was 188 deg in part of the point (the thickest part).  I removed it from the grate, and it was really moist and glistening, and felt like it was going to tear if I didn't fully support with both hands.  (Part of the wet appearance was probably due to the fat strips that I used to cover the flat, which appears did a good job of basting during the cook.)  All of the probing slid in super easy, and didn't have any resistance.  I wrapped it in foil, and put it in the cooler.  I'm going to leave it there for at least a few hours, while I go back to sleep.

So, the last brisket was 10.25 lbs and the smoke took exactly 1.5 hours per lb, which is what I expected.  This 17.4 lb brisket one took 1 hr per lb.  Same cook temp of 225 deg, and same IT shut down of 195 deg.  The last brisket was 10.25 lbs, and the flat came out a little dry.  This one appears to be really moist, but I haven't cut it yet.  I'm concerned that I might have pulled this one early.  OTOH, I know that 80% of this brisket is going in the freezer, and will get some more cook during the reheat process.

Thoughts on why this one took so much shorter time to cook?  I second and third guessed whether I should put back into the smoker, reposition the probe into the thick part of the point, and cook longer.  But by that time, the smoker was all cooled down. 

Not sure it if is going to come thru, but I plotted the temp vs cook time and attached.

 

[barelfly]

My experience with smoking meat is like what you just explained. Larger cuts seem to cook faster, as in 1 hour/pound and smaller cuts get to 1.5-2hours/pound.

I read your thread yesterday and almost mentioned this, but if it caused you to change course and then it was ready for some reason, I didnt want that to happen. And sometimes, you never know with meat. It will be done when it wants to be done.

I have had a few briskets turn out early, so I did what you did, cooler and wrapped in towels  for multiple hours.  The temp will hold, and cuts will turnout even better. Mine Turned out great! People raved about them. You can also use the smoker as a cambro, set it to 140 at the lowest if you need a longer hold. But the best thing is that you are allowing for a proper rest and not having to cut into it immediately at an unfinished temp.

But the result sounds like it turned out well! I’m sure you sampled the brisket as well,  how could you not!

Enjoy your brisket!

 

[old sarge]

I place the trimmed fat on the top, somewhat fat-naked side of the meat.  Mentally, I feel it helps retain some moisture. Not really sure what with injecting and such.  Some day I will give larding a shot and see if that helps, hurts, or makes no difference.

 

[Jumanji]

Ok, so here is a recap.  (Now that I have slept!)  Smoked a packer - Sam's Club beef brisked USDA prime, 17.39 lbs.  I think it was about $3.60 per lb, so not cheap, but supposedly a better cut of meat than their $2.50/lb packers.  Coated with olive oil and Zacks Texas BBQ rub (not that it was a favorite, but it was available at my small, local grocery.)  Put in fridge, covered for 4 hours.  Put fat trimmings on top of the flat to see if that might keep more moist than my last smoke.  (First time ever tried that.)

On smoker (3D) at 1 pm Saturday, temp 225 deg.  Expecting to cook 25-26 hours, as last brisket I did was 1.5 hrs per lb, the same as the Smokin-It chart referenced.  Checked internal temp - from the 3D readout - every hour for fun.  Plotted it up, as shown earlier.  Went to bed at 1 am, with temp still at the stall phase (and 176 deg).  Got up at 5 am (time change) to check it, and surprised it was 190 deg F.  At 6:15 am, it hit 195 deg F - a total of 17 hrs cook time for 17 lb brisket. 

Slide the rack out, and probed the meat with ThermoPen.  Measured 199 deg in the thinnest part of flat, 195 deg toward the middle of the brisket, and lowest was 188 deg in the thickest part of the point.  Prbbed like butter, and super juicy.  Had a bit of a time getting it off of the rack as it felt like it wanted to tear in pieces.  Wrapped up in foil, and put in cooler with blankets at 6:20 am.  Went to bed.  Pulled it out of cooler at 10:30 am (4 hrs), and unfoiled to slice.  Coolest internal temp measures was still 145 deg in the thinnest flat area (so above the 140 deg concern).  Foil about half inch deep in juice. 

Removed the fat slabs I had put on the flat side.  Still brown underneath them, but slightly lighter than the not covered areas.  Cut off about a 2 inch slice from the flat end of the brisket.  Cut super smooth, like it wants to tear instead of cut.  Set that aside for lunch later.  Then trimmed fat and cut up sections of meat to vacuum seal and freeze for later.  That's the last pic, but I think it shows just how juicy and tender this came out - even if the pic wasn't presentation quality. 

Here are some pics.  Note that the first one you can see the meat grain.  While it might look dry, it wasn't.  I could have easily just grabbed it and pulled it apart.  Actually, I had to be careful to keep it in large pieces.

Wife is off to the store for some German potato salad ingredients, and just started a pot of beans in her InstaPot.  Both thought we had another 6-8 hours of cook time to take care of that, but no worries.  I suspect the brisket is going to reheat just fine. 

Thanks for the advice everyone.  It's been a while since I've been on here, as we've perfected some killer ribs and prime rib cooks in the meantime, and was reluctant to venture back to brisket after my last less-than-stellar cook.  It probably also helped that I got a very good cut of meat this time.  But either way, thanks again.

PS.  Don't tell my wife that pictures I posted were on that ugly green cutting board! ;-)

 

[Meatball]

I place the trimmed fat on the top, somewhat fat-naked side of the meat.  Mentally, I feel it helps retain some moisture. Not really sure what with injecting and such.  Some day I will give larding a shot and see if that helps, hurts, or makes no difference.

Very good idea about the fat trimmings.... excellent use for them.