Food Science

[jcboxlot]

Full disclosure, I know the long daggers will be out on this post.  I love the SI and the food it makes.  That aside…….

Did anyone see Jeffs recipe today?

http://www.smoking-meat.com/


What caught my eye was take the meat out at 140 internal and transfer to grill to finish.  I don’t think he mentioned why but I recall reading either here or somewhere that smoke only gets into protein (beef/chicken) to 140 internal.

I guess my question is why do we keep food in these boxes for 2, 3, 4, 8, 9, 15, 19 hours when either a transfer to oven or grill would be just the same at 140 temp.

If you like a char on pork loin or crispy chicken skin this 140 remove method makes sense? 

Tell me why I am wrong.

PS I think a lot of people (not here) think that the smoke actually cooks the food for the full time of a cook.

 

[NDKoze]

The reason we leave the meat in the smoker is because most ovens and grills cannot cook at the low temperatures that smokers can.

Low and slow is the name of the game for most of our smokes. Grills are more high temp and faster cooking.

 

[SuperDave]

jc, a lot of it might be that people are either stuck in their ways or just like what they like.  Gregg and I for example are polar opposites in our approach.  Gregg like his bark and is willing to endure 20 hour smokes while I want to smoke it and eat it in the same day.  I smoke until the proverbial 160 on meats like pork shoulder and brisket and then foil wrap to finish.  I think the meat is moister and doesn't take near as long.  I think we do what we do because it turns out the way we like it.  As a member here, I cringe when new people are told there is only one way to do this or that and I never hope to tell someone that the way they are doing it is wrong.  I subscribe to offering choices and let people pick and choose what they want to experiment with. 

 

[NDKoze]

First, I'm not sure what I said above that offends you so much. Do you really disagree with my assertion that smokers are different than ovens and grills because of their ability to evenly maintain lower temperatures?

I would agree that we differ in a lot of ways and I don't see a problem with that. But I think you are way off base saying people are told that there is only one way to do things.

Of course experimentation is encouraged and important so that we can all learn new things.

However, there are some truths that in a lot of ways, traditional methods required for wood burners, gas, charcoal smokers, etc. are not necessary with electric smokers. You can still use them if you prefer the results, but don't have to.

If you like it a particular way, more power to you I say. But, a lot of people coming here don't have a lot of smoking experience, so we try to help them do it the way we like it in hopes that they will like it too. If you prefer it a different way, we often times encourage them to try it another way to see if they like it better or not.

My purpose in getting my #3 was to make it smoking food easier. So, the whole Lazy Q concept really appealed to me. I would rather put my Boston Butt in the smoker at midnight and mot mess with it until I take it out to rest and eat it. If you prefer to foil and speed things along there is no problem with that.

FYI, I do smoke and eat my food the same day, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

 

[Pork Belly]

Wow, much typing over a non-issue. I read that recipe it is nothing new we have talked about smoke and sear many times. Smoke and sear, reverse sear, smoke and grill what ever you want to call it does not lend it's self to all types and cuts of meat.

I maintain we should continue to do what makes us happy, while being open to trying a new idea.

 

[SuperDave]

Gregg, you have proclaimed to be a set it at 225 and forget it or let it take as long as it takes, even if that means a 20 + hour smoke.  And I wasn't trying to step on your toes in the expression of how differently 2 people can smoke their food and get acceptable results. 

As for being offended, as a new member, I've been berated on more than one occasion by you and others for either temperature choices or using the "f-word" for choosing to foil meat.  While I'm confident enough in my own techniques, others may not and not feel accepted. 

 

[jcboxlot]

Gregg, my gas oven in the kitchen goes down to 170 degrees on the digital set. 


Just posing a thought that if after 140 internal deg smoke absorb what would be different throwing it in the oven vs leaving it in the box.

I thought reverse sear was a quickie 4 mins per side at nuke gas grill temp 450 ish grill?  I'd think that a chicken taken out of a smoker at 140 internal would need more than a sear to be finished.

Again, the daggers were out.  haha 

Peace.  PS, time to take off some rib membranes for smoke at 1:00 PM

 

[NDKoze]

I did say "most" ovens. But, that may not be correct either. I just checked and my electric oven goes down to 170 too.

So, as long as your oven can be set to the same temperature, I don't see any reason why you couldn't move from the smoker to your oven after the internal temp hits 140-150 or so. I wouldn't normally do that unless I needed to smoke something else right away.

The reverse searing would obviously have to be done in the oven or grill.

I am totally retracting my daggers.

I didn't realize that I was coming across so rough on you guys. I'll try to choose my words better going forward, but can't make guarantees. I'm passionate about this hobby and love to help people. What I offer are only suggestions. I certainly do not mean to berate anyone who has a different opinion than mine.

 

[DivotMaker]

Wow, much typing over a non-issue. I read that recipe it is nothing new we have talked about smoke and sear many times. Smoke and sear, reverse sear, smoke and grill what ever you want to call it does not lend it's self to all types and cuts of meat.

I maintain we should continue to do what makes us happy, while being open to trying a new idea.

++1!

Guys, we're all about experimentation, and finding what works for you!  There is no "right way," or "wrong way" in what we obsess over - just "our way."  I know we don't all agree on techniques, but that's what makes it fun!  We discuss all sides, and offer our opinions - which frequently differ.  The key to anyone coming in new is to take all the ways, and find your own!  Personally, I've done the spritzing and foiling thing, and have found it's not for me (and I've never had a 20-hour smoke).  But, that's me.  Everyone's experience is different, so go with what works for you!

Dave, I'm sorry you feel you've been "berated" for your way of doing things!  Not the case at all, but many of us do have rather strong opinions!  Just take it for what it is, and don't be offended.  We're all on the same journey - the quest for "perfect Q!"  How we get there is everyone's choice!  Some folks come to the SI with the "traditional" techniques so ingrained in them that they are unwilling to adapt to a new smoker, and a new way of achieving the best results. 

As for John's original post about Jeff Phillip's email today:  I read it (as I do all, when I get them).  It's a solid technique for poultry, and one that I already use often.  The question about taking all meat out after 140 and finishing in the oven is odd, IMO.  We reverse-sear things like poultry and prime rib, but not butts or briskets.  Not going to get crispy chicken skin, no matter how long you leave it in the smoker, so why not finish on a hot grill?  As far as things like butts and briskets; why finish in the oven when it's already in a cooker that is maintaining temperature & moisture (and probably uses a lot less energy than pre-heating an oven)?  Why go through the hassle of transferring the meat?  I'm all about the Lazy Q, so I darn sure don't want to move any meat I don't have to!

I hope no one is offended by this post (seems to be a lot of that going on lately), so let me say "I'm sorry" in advance! ???

 

[jcboxlot]

I will try this on chicken next time.  I have done wings in the SI and I think I'd prefer the crispy skin vs SI.  Smoke taste great, skin, B-

For those still reading, 3 hours in a gas oven in the kitchen is less or more $$$ vs the SI out on the deck?

I guess hard to peg difference vs region and season time, but just curious thoughts.

Happy smoke weekend.  Company tomorrow here.  They know whats in the smoker, but its the 1st non family test.  Looking to convert!

 

[NDKoze]

In the summer it is nice to keep the heat outside, and while I personally like the smoke smell some wouldn't like the smoke smell accumulating in the house from finishing in the oven.

If it is an electric oven, I would think the costs would be pretty similar. Historically, I would say that a gas oven would be more expensive, but not sure how the recent oil prices have affected natural gas rates. My house is all electric, so I am not in tune with the gas prices or how efficient gas ovens are.

Good luck with your guests! I have a feeling that there could be some potential customers looking for smokers afterward.

 

[swthorpe]

I have taken chicken quarters from the smoker and given them a quick sear on the grill to try to crisp up the skin.  I am going to try Jeff's technique the next time I do quarters to see how it works out.  The concept sounds fine to me, and I look forward to tasting the result.  ;D

 

[SuperDave]

I'm going to try my first hand at cheese this weekend and I WON'T be finishing it in the oven.  LOL! 

 

[NDKoze]

I have taken chicken quarters from the smoker and given them a quick sear on the grill to try to crisp up the skin.  I am going to try Jeff's technique the next time I do quarters to see how it works out.  The concept sounds fine to me, and I look forward to tasting the result.  ;D

I do this quite often in the summer for camping. I'll smoke them at home, then vacuum pack and finish on the grill at the camp site. Always turns out awesome.

I'm going to try my first hand at cheese this weekend and I WON'T be finishing it in the oven.  LOL! 

Good luck with your cheese smoke. I did my first one last Friday and am going to do my first taste test tonight. Hopefully you will create a new thread for your smoke. I think we still need a lot more data and results to perfect the cheese smoking with our Smokin-It smokers.

 

[DivotMaker]

I'm going to try my first hand at cheese this weekend and I WON'T be finishing it in the oven.  LOL!

Can't argue with that decision, Dave!! ;D ;D  Although, "finishing" it later in the oven, on top of a pizza, might work out well!

 

[NDKoze]

I'm going to try my first hand at cheese this weekend and I WON'T be finishing it in the oven.  LOL!

Can't argue with that decision, Dave!! ;D ;D  Although, "finishing" it later in the oven, on top of a pizza, might work out well!

And make it even better with some homemade Canadian Bacon.