3D Wifi popping 20A breaker - HELP!

[LandToSea]

I sent an email to Steve, but given the immediacy of needing to figure this out I am also posting here hoping for a faster resolution today instead of waiting until office hours tomorrow when I will be at work and unable to do anything until I get home around 7p.

I went to start my Thanksgiving smokes today since I am working a long week. I have used my 3D on the same  20A circuit about 20x with no issues. Today, as soon as I plugged it in the circuit pops. It doesn't matter if the switch is on or off, it still pops. I tried another circuit and the same occurred. Please advise ASAP as my whole Thanksgiving revolves around this. At least I started early so I have time to work it out.

Thanks to anyone who may be able to help today!

 

[old sarge]

Try plugging something else into the same outlet such as a toaster or toaster oven, lamp, etc.  You need to first establish that the outlet is good (GFCIs do go bad).  You could also plug the smoker into another GFCI outlet and see if the tripping occurs there. If all is well with your testing and it looks as though the  problem is the smoker, you will have to look at the smokers innards. Check for excessive moisture/condensation inside the cabinet. If you get to the point where you must operate on your smoker, look for a loose wire connection or a possible burnt wire/connection. Besides a visual inspection, a multi-meter would prove useful. If you use an extension cord, be sure to test that as well.  Here are a couple of links that might help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJkyY8qRRwc
http://www.appliance411.com/faq/test-element.shtml

 

[LandToSea]

Thanks for the reply Sarge!
1. I tested the circuit with my air compressor, it is fine and had always worked for the smoker on the prior ~20 smokes.

2. As mentioned in the original post, I tried another circuit and it failed on that one also. This circuit is fine as my wife operates her 1800W hair dryer on it for an hour at a time. I even tested the hair dryer to be certain. I guess failing on 2 separate known reliable 20A circuits pretty much concludes something is shorting in the smoker.

3. I pulled the back off. No connections were loose and no visible burning. There was some grease leakage coming through one of the bolt holes going into the cabinet, but nothing extreme.

4. I never use an extension cord with the SI.

I guess I am SOL until I can get in touch with Steve tomorrow and hopefully get a fast resolution. It will really be a bummer if I have to use the slow cooker and oven instead of smoker for Thanksgiving main event.

 

[old sarge]

Sorry I missed the fact you had checked the circuits earlier.  Wish I had been of more help. Not to steel a purchase of a smoker from Steve but one of the folks at work uses a smoker roaster now instead of a regular smoker.  The model he uses is at the link.  I have to tell you that it does indeed smoke. Maybe too much.  But he likes a very strong profile. Just a thought, like a back up for emergencies.

https://www.oster.com/ovens-and-toasters/roaster-ovens/oster-16-quart-smoker-roaster-oven-red-ckstrosmk18/CKSTROSMK18.html

 

[LandToSea]

I tried some measurements with the voltmeter. I don't really know what I am doing but I took pretty much every combination I could from the plug to the controller. These are the only ones ones that DID NOT result in 0.0 reading. This was with the controller wires disconnected from the relay. Taking readings with the wires all connected is virtually impossible since they didn't give enough  wire length to work between the smoker and back cover without disconnecting the controller wires from the relay that is mounted in the back cover.

 

[LandToSea]

So, I have been talking to Steve, but he didn't have additional suggestions to test since everything looks normal. I mentioned maybe he ship a relay and I try swapping then in hopes of an easy and cheap solution. Unfortunately,  it didn't resolve the problem.

I had to cook the meats I had prepped for Thanksgiving so I improvised with the grill. What a PITA to keep the temperature in a range somewhat close to target of 225. I hope I get my SI fixed soon and it stays reliable moving forward. This issue at the holidays will keep me hesitant to rely on it for such an occasion for some time.

 

[Zenwizard]

The breaker tripping is a symptom not the cause. And it is a 20 A breaker that is popping. You started that you tested the breaker with an air compressor. A Question I have is how large and air compressor?

Heating elements have a very large in rush current until they warm up.

I would caution you about troubleshooting much further as you are dealing with voltages and currents that can A start a fire and B electrocute a person. That being said you are tripping the breaker before you even turn the smoker on. This would lead me to beleave the AC line is shorted to the case and there for ground. Using the meter take an Ohm reading from red lead to all 3 pins on the plug and the black lead of the meter to the case and see if you have a dead short.

 

[LandToSea]

Thanks Zenwizard! The 2.5hp compressor pulls 14 amps. I also tested the outlet with a 10 amp, 1200w heat gun running 5m and both ran fine. Either way,  the smoker has ran on the same circuit and outlet for over a dozen long smokes without issue.

 

[LarryD]

the smoker has ran on the same circuit and outlet for over a dozen long smokes without issue.

I have to agree with Zenwizard that it sure sounds likes a short before you even get to the controller.  Inspect the power cord carefully for any damage of any kind, particularly at the plug and where it enters the smoker.

At the same time, I'd probably be talking to Steve about a replacement under warranty.  It seems like you've done due-diligence and it should really "just work" as long as there's no clear damage.

 

[LandToSea]

I would caution you about troubleshooting much further as you are dealing with voltages and currents that can A start a fire and B electrocute a person. That being said you are tripping the breaker before you even turn the smoker on. This would lead me to beleave the AC line is shorted to the case and there for ground. Using the meter take an Ohm reading from red lead to all 3 pins on the plug and the black lead of the meter to the case and see if you have a dead short.

Am I doing this right? The other two leads besides the ground gave no reading.

 

[Zenwizard]

Where does that green wire go in the second picture? Remember, in house wiring, at least in NA, BLACK is HOT! If that green ground wire goes into the wire nut with the black wire from the cord, that would be a dead short to ground. And if the breaker was not tripping, it would also be making the casement live with 120.

When you are saying no reading, is the meter showing 0.00 or Overload? Remember when reading Ohms, 0.00 is not infinite resistance, it is no resistance (lots of current).

Given the load you tested the breaker with I can some what rule out a bad breaker. That is a big air compressor and a head gun is a descent load. So a good test of the breaker. I would advise NOT opening the electric panel for any reason as the currents in there are enough not only you kill some one but leave them crispy.

If I was going to keep troubleshooting this issue I would follow the black wire out of the wire nut and look for any wires that were nicked pinched or frayed also look for black marks anything shorting with THAT much current will most likely cause some charring and smoke damage.

The typical disclaimer you are proceeding at your own risk. Electricity can and will injure or kill. If you do not know what you are doing DO NOT proceed If you THINK you know what you are doing DO NOT proceed.

 

[LandToSea]

Thanks again. I am doing this ohm testing with the unit unplugged, correct?

The green wire is uninterrupted ground to the plug. The wire nuts are the white and black wires connected to the relay and element. It came with crimped and shrink wrapped connections and Steve asked that I open those up to inspect for burning which the wasn't. The wire nuts are temporary to continue testing.

Actually,  the reading in the other 2 wires is OL. Keep in mind that all of this is being done unplugged. Since it opened the breaker add soon as plugged in I didn't think it would matter.

 

[LandToSea]

the smoker has ran on the same circuit and outlet for over a dozen long smokes without issue.

I have to agree with Zenwizard that it sure sounds likes a short before you even get to the controller.  Inspect the power cord carefully for any damage of any kind, particularly at the plug and where it enters the smoker.

At the same time, I'd probably be talking to Steve about a replacement under warranty.  It seems like you've done due-diligence and it should really "just work" as long as there's no clear damage.

The power cord looks fine. Steve sent me a relay to replace which I did without resolution. He has suggested try a new element or return for inspection.  I would rather try swapping a couple parts before trying to figure out how to pack this thing to then safely ship on my dime at probably near $100 insured. The warranty details do not specify that the buyer pay shipping for warranty service so FYI it appears we do.

Meanwhile I have a $80 corned brisket sitting in the fridge since before Thanksgiving needing to be cooked somehow. I feel like a fool after arguing with the stick burner guys in Backyard Smokers on FB about how great electrics are,  specifically SI. They would focus on the inability to use without power and "things can break" aspects. I would argue that while lack of power is a weakness in electric that things breaking is very unlikely given the SI design.  :

 

[LarryD]

I feel like a fool after arguing with the stick burner guys in Backyard Smokers on FB about how great electrics are,  specifically SI. They would focus on the inability to use without power and "things can break" aspects. I would argue that while lack of power is a weakness in electric that things breaking is very unlikely given the SI design.  :

I can't blame you for feeling bad...  I'd feel bad in your same situation.  Of course, any smoker can have a failure or be a lemon even when there is a solid reputation.  I hope Steve can find a way to take care of you.  I get your reluctance to send it back... $100 shipping/insurance might be optimistic.

I can see where a bad element could cause it to short and kick the breaker, but I would think that would only happen when the smoker is actually turned on.

Hang in there and keep us posted on what happens, if you are willing.  I'd still like to see you be a happy 'member of the family' here in the long run.

 

[EFGM]

Hopefully after reading then entire thread I have not missed anything or am about to suggest something someone else already has. Since you have the wiring exposed, I would suggest a temporary power cord be wired in replacing the OEM cord. See if it works again. It seems to me there has to be a short either at the switch, or the power cord has a short in it somewhere. If the new temp power cord does not solve the issue then I suspect its the switch. (Don't know if you were able to take a look at the wiring on it or not)

Hope this helps in some small way, if nothing else but to let you know others are with you. I know after this rough start you will love your Smoking-it!

 

[Booray]

I had the same problem with my #2 on Thanksgiving morning.  I've used the same outlet for the last 3 years.  GFI kept popping and when I switched to a non GFI outlet the on light came on and then immediately turned off.  I am nowhere near comfortable messing around with electrical wires, anyone have any suggestions on how to fix this issue? 

 

[LandToSea]

It appears we are functional again. First I rewired the short runs from the relay so the back plate could be off with everything connected. I plugged it in after and it powered up. Woohoo! Ya, not so fast... I moved all of the wires around to see if it would short out and it didn't. So, I started reattaching the back plate and the breaker disconnected. This made me think the power cord was kinked/ pinched and shorting where it is crimped entering the back plate so I pulled that section through the opening and cut back some outer jacket to inspect, but the wires were perfectly fine.

So, I replaced the PID controller Steve sent to test and it powered up again, but threw the breaker shortly after.

The only thing left was the heating element which I then replaced and so far that is working. It has been running without losing power for an hour at full power.

I am happy that it was possible to resolve without trying to safely ship the entire unit back. Fingers crossed it keeps working and I can finally cook this pastrami.

 

[LandToSea]

All good. 7 hour smoke at 250 completed today.

 

[LarryD]

Yay!  I hope to be hearing a lot of future stories about all of the great smokes.