Potential Auber scenarios and hazards?

[Plan2build]

(Mods, please move this topic if this is not the appropriate place.)

Hello,  I am a new member here and have introduced myself over in the Intro forum (thanks for the welcome)!  I am hoping to be the proud parent of a new Model #2 in the coming hours/day and have been reading the forums for as much information as possible on the Auber temperature control, its installation and tuning, and the ability to bypass the model control circuit.

What I have not been able to find (please direct me if I am missing it) is a description of potential hazards associated with the several possible configurations.  I was hoping folks with more understanding of electrical circuits could chime in and confirm or correct the scenarios below, and to add information that I am unsure about.

Again, I have already purchased an Auber for the Model 2 and am debating the merits and hazards of a hardwire, switched bypass configuration versus the factory configuration using drop-in probe “method”.  DISCLAIMER: These are my questions and assumptions that need to be validated with commentary here, and are not to be taken as statements of fact!  With that said, here are the scenarios I need some clarity with:

Model 2 with Auber- Factory configuration with No Bypass

Model 2 plugged to Wall

• Factory controller has full control as designed from the factory

Model 2 plugged to Auber

• Model 2 controller set at Max 250F
• Auber has full control up to Max 250F

Pros:
No modifications required.  Can use original factory capabilities, or can drop probes through the top and maintain temperature control via the Auber.

Cons:
Some temperature variations expected with the factory configuration.  Temperature capped at 250F.

Model 2 with Auber, with hardwired bypass (non-switched)

Model 2 plugged to Auber

• Factory controller bypassed and non-operational
• Auber has full control up to Max 350F (max rating for cabinet temp)

Model 2 plugged to Wall

• With the factory controller bypassed, power to the heating element will be ON and will be uncontrolled.
• Maximum temperatures could exceed the max 350F rating for the cabinet resulting in a potentially hazardous condition.

Pros
No interference from the factory controller with using the Auber to control the temperature.

Cons
Minor modifications to the wiring are required.  If your Auber malfunctions, you must reverse the modifications before you can return to using the factory controller.  If someone is unfamiliar that the modifications were made, there is a potential hazard created if the smoker is plugged directly to a power source.

Model 2 with Auber, with switched bypass (using DPDT switch)

Model 2 plugged to Auber, switch to Auber control

• Factory controller bypassed and non-operational.
• Auber has full control up to Max 350F (max rating for cabinet temp)

Model 2 plugged to Auber, switch to Factory controller

•   I am unsure what happens here, any commentary is appreciated.  If the Auber is not programmed or running, I assume the power connection between the smoker and the Auber is not live and nothing would happen.

Model 2 plugged to wall, switch to Factory controller

• Factory controller has full control up to Max 250F (please correct me if I am mistaken here)

Model 2 plugged to wall, switch to Auber control

• Again I am unsure what happens here, and any commentary is appreciated.  Is this scenario like the direct bypass above in that the coil will heat up without control due to the bypass?

Any help, clarity, corrections, and/or guidance on these scenarios and questions is appreciated!

P2B

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[DivotMaker]

Model 2 with Auber- Factory configuration with No Bypass

Model 2 plugged to Wall  Correct.

• Factory controller has full control as designed from the factory

Model 2 plugged to Auber  Correct.

• Model 2 controller set at Max 250F
• Auber has full control up to Max 250F

Pros:
No modifications required.  Can use original factory capabilities, or can drop probes through the top and maintain temperature control via the Auber.  Correct.

Cons:
Some temperature variations expected with the factory configuration.  Temperature capped at 250F.  Incorrect.  With proper probe placement, and an autotune, the Auber will control the box temp within 2-3°.  Not bypassing only limits the max temp to 250°.

Model 2 with Auber, with hardwired bypass (non-switched)

Model 2 plugged to Auber  Correct.

• Factory controller bypassed and non-operational
• Auber has full control up to Max 350F (max rating for cabinet temp)

Model 2 plugged to Wall  Correct.  But, there is a basic assumption that anyone with the ability to do a bypass on the smoker will hopefully have enough common sense to not plug the smoker into direct power, without the Auber in the chain!  Yes, if plugged-in directly, the element will be fully-powered until it fails.

• With the factory controller bypassed, power to the heating element will be ON and will be uncontrolled.
• Maximum temperatures could exceed the max 350F rating for the cabinet resulting in a potentially hazardous condition.

Pros
No interference from the factory controller with using the Auber to control the temperature.  Correct.

Cons
Minor modifications to the wiring are required.  If your Auber malfunctions, you must reverse the modifications before you can return to using the factory controller.  If someone is unfamiliar that the modifications were made, there is a potential hazard created if the smoker is plugged directly to a power source.  Correct.  If you don't understand this modification, and are not reasonably mechanically-capable, DO NOT attempt!

Model 2 with Auber, with switched bypass (using DPDT switch)

Model 2 plugged to Auber, switch to Auber control  Correct.

• Factory controller bypassed and non-operational.
• Auber has full control up to Max 350F (max rating for cabinet temp)

Model 2 plugged to Auber, switch to Factory controller  In this configuration, the smoker can be direct-powered, just like there is no Auber attached.  If you are using the Auber this way (not sure why you would want to), it will work the same way as the Auber attached to a stock smoker.

•   I am unsure what happens here, any commentary is appreciated.  If the Auber is not programmed or running, I assume the power connection between the smoker and the Auber is not live and nothing would happen.

Model 2 plugged to wall, switch to Factory controller  Correct.

• Factory controller has full control up to Max 250F (please correct me if I am mistaken here)

Model 2 plugged to wall, switch to Auber control  See above.  It will act like the bypassed smoker plugged directly into the wall.  Not good.

• Again I am unsure what happens here, and any commentary is appreciated.  Is this scenario like the direct bypass above in that the coil will heat up without control due to the bypass?

Any help, clarity, corrections, and/or guidance on these scenarios and questions is appreciated!

P2B

Hope this helps!  This is obviously a mod that only experienced users should use, and certainly exercise caution when operating!  Think your way through before you just "plug and play!"

[Limey]

I like to think of this issue in terms of where the constraints are-the controller and the Auber.
A. SI plugged directly in to wall, therefore no Auber, only potential constraint is the controller.
    -controller in the circuit constrains heat to 250 degrees(and ambient if not switched on)
    -controller bypassed-heat increases(whether switched on or not) until something fails/melts or the unit reaches
      equilibrium heat i.e. heat in equals heat out and the SI acts as a radiator
B. SI plugged in to the Auber and the Auber plugged into the wall. Both the Auber and the controller can now
     potentially act as constraints.
    -Auber off-nothing happens
    -Auber on but not calling for heat, nothing happens
    -Auber on and calling for heat-controller in the circuit-heat increases until either the Auber or the controller
      reach their set point. Since the controller has a maximum set point of 250 degrees the SI will not exceed 250
    -Auber on and calling for heat-controller bypassed-heat increases until the Auber reaches its set point or
     something melts.  It is worth noting that the Auber can control up to 660 degrees so in theory the Auber
     could drive the SI up to 660 degrees unless something melts prior to this. The Auber does not automatically
     limit the temperature to 350 degrees. Of course nobody sets their Auber to 660 but I am reminded of the old
     saying that it is very difficult to make something fool proof because fools are so damned ingenious.

Hope this helps. there is a previous thread "Upgraded Controller" which addresses this issue.
I personally think that bypassing the controller is potentially very dangerous. Sure we are all enthusiasts and know what we are doing and would never plug an SI with a bypassed controller directly into the wall or set our Aubers to 660 degrees. However our SIs may get borrowed, used by family members, or, in the fullness of time, passed on to our grand kids-all of whom may be less knowledgeable.

   

[NDKoze]

I'm not an Auber owner yet, but I am pretty suture that you can set a max temperature. You just have to know the code which I do not remember.

[DivotMaker]

I'm not an Auber owner yet, but I am pretty suture that you can set a max temperature. You just have to know the code which I do not remember.

Correct and incorrect, Gregg.  You can set each of the 6 steps max temp in the programs, but you cannot set (in the programming) the max temp that the unit will go to.  You can set a "hi heat" alarm, but that will just alert you (by sound and flashing) when you hit it; it doesn't shutoff the unit.

Just like anything that deals with heat and electronics, you have to pay attention to your settings, and keep an eye on it.  When using the Auber, I never leave the house and let it go unchecked.  Although I believe in the reliability of them, I know any electronic device can fail, so I check on mine.  Don't have to constantly monitor, but I pay attention.

[NDKoze]

Yeah, the high heat alarm is what I was thinking about.

[Plan2build]

Thanks All,

I think all the questions in my mind have been answered by all of you.  I am reasonably familiar with electrical wiring and very adept at being able to make the modifications!  My concerns were related to the point Roger makes, that someone may borrow or use the smoker, and if they are unaware of the safe operation, there could be an issue.

For the record, I have ordered the Auber, and will be adding it on a switched circuit (and fixed internal probe).  Pictures will follow...right now I am waiting for delivery of the Model 2 (delayed till Monday) and will do the modifications while all is new and clean.

Again, Thanks for all the help!

[TmanEater]

P2B,


I'm pretty sure the PID controllers internally all use a device called a SSR (Solid State Relay). The solid state relay takes low voltage DC control logic on the input side and uses it to control the AC output side. I've read about some of these SSR's failing in the closed state (which would be the ON state). I don't know how hot the 800 watt element could get the smoker before completely failing. I'm currently building a HeaterMeter PID for my #2 smoker (starting the circuit board soldering today actually). This PID controller will give me Wi-Fi connectivity availability. With that I'm going to create alarms if my PID controller goes off the deep end. I'll have those alarms make noise, send me text messages to my phone, and do whatever it can automatically to prevent burning out my smoker element and potentially causing other damage. I believe the probability of such event is extremely low but I want the "piece of mind" features to be there just in case it would happen. I'm also installing a bypass switch to flip between PID and analog controller modes like many do on this forum.


Tony

[Plan2build]

Thanks Tony...I have been lurking in the links on your build post....the project is really interesting and I look forward to your progress updates!

[BedouinBob]

Good oversight Tony. With respect to Auber failure, I am not particularly worried. Yes the heater element will fail. Yes the box may get super hot in the process. Yes dinner will be ruined.  but other than that there is not much to burn unless the Auber fails in a way that doesn't trip a breaker and commences to "fire up". Not likely IMHO. 

[DivotMaker]

This is kind of like the safety warnings you get with all electrical appliances and tools:  Don't use this toaster in the bath tub, don't operate this table saw in the rain, etc...

Common sense is a wonderful thing (although, I realize it isn't always so "common").  Don't loan your bypassed smoker to anyone not competent enough to use it properly.  If anyone else in your household uses it, teach them how to use it properly.  Safety is only as safe as we make it.

[BedouinBob]

So I shouldn't be using an arc welder in the rain Tony? I knew I shouldn't have done that in Mexico!! 

[DivotMaker]

So I shouldn't be using an arc welder in the rain Tony? I knew I shouldn't have done that in Mexico!! 

Too funny!  Hey Bob, if you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space!  Hehe.