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Smokin-It Smokers => Model 3 & 3D - The Big Brother => Topic started by: FunkedOut on November 08, 2014, 09:07:10 PM

Title: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on November 08, 2014, 09:07:10 PM
Anybody modified their #3 to allow more air in?
Been thinking about getting an inlet port near the rear of the bottom to knock two birds...

1) get more airflow for eliminating more moisture.  I'm in FL and have plenty of humidity in my box.  can't seem to get a decent bark on anything or crispy skin on birds.

2) cooling off the rear of the element should balance it with the front (factory drain hole), hopefully making wood along the smoke box burn evenly.  at the moment, only the few half of the smoke box is functional.  front half doesn't produce smoke.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: DivotMaker on November 09, 2014, 08:52:08 AM
Before modifying anything, please contact Steve at SI and tell him what issues you are having.  Walt's right, I believe, that you may have a heating element issue.  These smokers are designed with little airflow in the bottom for a reason, and extra holes may cause unintended consequences.

Also - just go ahead and give up on the idea of ever getting "crispy" skin on poultry in an electric smoker; your life will be so much more stress-free! ;)
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on November 09, 2014, 01:15:49 PM
Have you thought about replacing your element before modifying?

in the introductions sub forum, old sarge suggested a bad element might be the cause.
I did just what he suggested and ruled out a bad element.
I ran the smoker for 5 min and then measured the element all along its length and found everywhere to be in the 340-420*F range with the exception of the very tip of the element.  Literally only the curved part of the element was in the 200*F neighborhood.  All of it was bright orange.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on November 09, 2014, 01:22:22 PM
Before modifying anything, please contact Steve at SI and tell him what issues you are having.  Walt's right, I believe, that you may have a heating element issue.  These smokers are designed with little airflow in the bottom for a reason, and extra holes may cause unintended consequences.

Also - just go ahead and give up on the idea of ever getting "crispy" skin on poultry in an electric smoker; your life will be so much more stress-free! ;)

I want to be clear that I would not say I am having any issues with this smoker.  It is awesome.  Beautifully built.
I'm simply trying to make it mine for what I want exactly.

I smoke in a swamp that is at 90-100*F and 90-100% humidity.

I would definitely like to hear Steve's thoughts on the subject.  After all, he is the man that designed this box.
I figured he would join the discussion here.
I'll call him up during the week.  It just seems I only get time to play with this on weekends.

I was just polling the community for similar interests.
My idea was a 1" bulkhead connector (like the exhaust port) at the bottom rear, with a 90* elbow and a 1/4 turn valve to get the inlet adjusted just right (or closed).  All stainless, of course.  8)
The bulkhead would stick up just far enough into the box to keep any drippings or moisture from going into the new inlet and keep the original drip hole and pan the only point for the drippings to get out.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: DivotMaker on November 09, 2014, 03:38:40 PM
Your idea of a variable port sounds reasonable.  I thought you were just going to drill extra hole(s) in the bottom.  I'd still be interested to hear what you find out from Steve.  He doesn't spend much time here, unless he gets a topic sent to him.  He stays pretty busy running his business, and I think he doesn't want to "interfere" with all of our "user" discussions on the forum.  I think he feels this is for us, and not for him to get too involved in. 

Email him, or send him a text, and he will get back with you!
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: NDKoze on November 10, 2014, 12:26:42 AM
Personally, I would not drill any extra holes in my smoker. For many of my smokes, I like the moisture in the smoker and add water pans next to smoker box to add even more moisture and I always get really nice bark.

If you want to get moisture out of your smoker, I would just get a James Jerky Dryer. I have one that I use to remove the moisture during Jerky and Snack Stix smokes that works awesome to pull the moisture out of the box.

My 2 cents.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: Pork Belly on November 10, 2014, 01:04:33 AM
If you are in Florida or Arizona it should not matter regarding the amount of moisture in the smoker. yes Florida is very humid but the amount of air in the smoker at the start of the smoke and what little is drawn in is minimal. I'm in Michigan and my #3 is always steaming and smoking when I open the door. I gave up on crispy poultry and am happy. Poultry skin sucks in an SI, poultry meat is awesome as is all SI smoked meat.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: DivotMaker on November 10, 2014, 08:00:10 PM
If you are in Florida or Arizona it should not matter regarding the amount of moisture in the smoker. yes Florida is very humid but the amount of air in the smoker at the start of the smoke and what little is drawn in is minimal. I'm in Michigan and my #3 is always steaming and smoking when I open the door. I gave up on crispy poultry and am happy. Poultry skin sucks in an SI, poultry meat is awesome as is all SI smoked meat.

+1!
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on November 10, 2014, 10:29:13 PM
If you are in Florida or Arizona it should not matter regarding the amount of moisture in the smoker. yes Florida is very humid but the amount of air in the smoker at the start of the smoke and what little is drawn in is minimal. I'm in Michigan and my #3 is always steaming and smoking when I open the door. I gave up on crispy poultry and am happy. Poultry skin sucks in an SI, poultry meat is awesome as is all SI smoked meat.

+1!

I agree with you guys too.
I'm looking to change the part about how little is drawn in.
My MES was a leaky box and gave me good bark.  it had a lot less power than this box; 40W vs 1200W.

The MES made excellent BBQ, but deteriorated quickly in the swamp.  the nail in the coffin was when the element died in March, and replacement elements were expected no earlier than August. 
Summer without BBQ was a no go.

Lots of research led me here and I stand by my choice.
I may just have to go against the grain on this one.  nothing wrong with that.
I'll report my results.

BTW, I got an email into Steve tonight to hear his thoughts.  I'll wait for that before punching a hole.

Also, NDKoze, I'm sure the jerky dryer works but maybe too well.  I don't want jerky everytime I get a brisket in there. ;)  I may decide to make some jerky in the future. 

thanks to everyone for their thoughts and time.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: NDKoze on November 10, 2014, 10:39:27 PM
I don't use the dryer on anything other than Jerky, Stix, or fresh sausage.

Plus, I have never had trouble getting good bark on any of my pork butt or rib smokes.

Are you using a mustard or oil binder? Or are you applying your rub directly to the meat?

You won't get crispy skin on your birds. That just isn't going to happen. The best bet is to take them off 10 degrees shy of 165 and finish on the grill or in the oven.

I have smoked in some pretty humid ND days (upper 80s/lower 90s with 90+ humidity) and never had a problem getting good bark. So, I am wondering if the issue isn't more with the process.

Just trying to find a way to help with your bark situation.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on November 11, 2014, 03:22:03 PM
I use oil on birds and nothing on beef or pork; rub right on the meat.
If you use gloves, the rub will stick to the meat and not your hands/gloves.
I was on the very edge of getting good skin on the MES, some of it was crispy, some of it was rubber.
I'll get there with this box.

I have these methods down for some time.  All that's changed is the smoker so I know that's where the difference is.

I heard back from Steve.  He didn't have anything bad to say or fears about my plans.  He offered up a suggestion to restrict the exhaust 50% to see if the wood burns more evenly, before punching a hole.  I think that might work for the woods, not cooling off the front as much, but it's going the opposite way I want to go for the humidity.

I'm going to go ahead and execute.  Ill order some parts, implement and report back.
Thanks again to all.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: NDKoze on November 11, 2014, 04:20:02 PM
I would try using mustard as a binder before you give up on the bark and do the mods.

I also use oil on birds, but have always used mustard on pork and beef and have always had awesome bark.

Good luck on your mods. Let us know how it goes.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: DivotMaker on November 11, 2014, 08:38:57 PM
Cheap old yeller mustard = great bark! ;)   
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: McKay on November 12, 2014, 10:51:33 AM
I dont use anything except rub and Im getting bark.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: NDKoze on November 12, 2014, 11:15:52 AM
If you haven't tried the plain old yellow mustard, you owe it to yourself to at least try it to compare against your current method.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on June 25, 2015, 06:17:39 PM
I'm back after some experimenting and have good news.
I drilled a small hole near he rear of the smoker, sized the same as the drain hole and airflow increased.
I'd say the rear 75% of the wood box burned, vs 40-50% before the hole.
I opened just the rear hole up some more, one step at a time on a step drill, cooking ribs at each size.  ;)
The bark got better and better each time, but the wood never burned on the front 25%.
I then used foil to cover the front face of the wood box, so no air could get in to cool the front of the wood box down.  That solved the uneven wood burning issue altogether.
After changing the controller to someone that reaches 275*F, I now have all of the wood box burning and chicken skin gets black and crispy in places. 
Best part was eating all the test pieces.  8)
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: Limey on June 25, 2015, 08:11:51 PM
Funked Out can you post details on the controller you found. Thanks.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: DivotMaker on June 25, 2015, 09:36:44 PM
Good news, Funk!  How about some pics of your successes?
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: Ohio1956 on June 25, 2015, 09:45:11 PM
I would like to know about the controller also. I don't want to buy the auber just to increase the temp past 250.

Thanks;
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: DivotMaker on June 25, 2015, 09:54:09 PM
I would like to know about the controller also. I don't want to buy the auber just to increase the temp past 250.

Thanks;

Rod - don't buy the Auber just to increase temps!  That's not a good reason.  If you do have an Auber, you still have to bypass the stock controller to exceed 250.  The point of the Auber is tight control, and flexibility to program up to 6 separate steps in the cook, not crispy poultry skin!  If you like consistent box temps, within a degree or two, and want to set different temps during a smoke, automatically, then the Auber is the key!  It's certainly not mandatory for making great Q, but sure makes us BBQ nerds happy! ;)
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: Ohio1956 on June 25, 2015, 10:08:43 PM
Yes, I understood from reading the post concerning the auber. I like having the maverick. I am always doing something around the house or in the yard, I don't want to be locked down to the smoker.

After going over my past experience with my first smoker, I was able to smoke at 320 and I used a lot more wood. That's why I am going a little slower with the #3. I am hooked on this smoker and now I am ready to start smoking. I don't mind the temp swings, just the end result and so far it's been great. If I could go to 275 or 300 this would be perfect. Anyway thanks;
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on June 25, 2015, 11:52:21 PM
I took the controller from the MES (Masterbuilt) I had and used it on the SI3.
Nice set up.   It's a simple on-off controller, with built in timer and meat probe.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: DivotMaker on June 26, 2015, 10:50:10 PM
I took the controller from the MES (Masterbuilt) I had and used it on the SI3.
Nice set up.   It's a simple on-off controller, with built in timer and meat probe.

Pictures, please! ;)
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: gmannel on June 28, 2015, 09:57:51 PM
Very intriguing! What was your final 2nd hole size? Are you still going to expand it to a valved bulkhead for adjustment?
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on June 29, 2015, 06:14:48 PM
Very intriguing! What was your final 2nd hole size? Are you still going to expand it to a valved bulkhead for adjustment?

I enlarged the front slightly to 3/8"
I ended up with 7/16" in the rear.

Actually, it's fine as is.  It will probably stay this way for a bit.
Next step would be to enlarge the rear hole enough to fit 3/4" pipe.
Then, I'd run a section of 3/4" pipe the full length of the element, and drill holes along the way to evenly distribute the airflow.
Finally, install a blower feeding the 3/4" pipe with the ability to control the CFM; original design to jerky with a pot or PWM control.  :o
Seems to me that blowing clean air in, is better than sucking the smokey air out.  That fan would probably get much dirtier quicker.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on June 29, 2015, 06:27:59 PM
I took the controller from the MES (Masterbuilt) I had and used it on the SI3.
Nice set up.   It's a simple on-off controller, with built in timer and meat probe.

Pictures, please! ;)

Sadly, this last smoke (probably the 10th or so), the MES controller died.  I was able to troubleshoot it down to the box that I installed down by the element, inside the SI3.  Probably got too hot and killed a voltage regulator.  120VAC is getting to that box, but DC voltage is not getting to the display up top.  The circuit board is covered in some white epoxy so I can't get to any points to measure.   :-\
I took some pictures of the decommissioning.
Looked great and worked great, until it didn't.

Almost got my mind made up on an auber.  Still planning out the install.  I'd rather have it all integrated if possible, rather than a separate box with wires attaching them.  I definitely want to keep the SSR cool.

Good news, Funk!  How about some pics of your successes?

Luckily, I managed to get a solid 4 hours out of it before it went belly up.
Here are some pics of the brisket.
First pic on the foil is at the 4 hour mark.
Second pic on the foil is after another 6-7 hours in the oven.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: DivotMaker on June 29, 2015, 07:36:03 PM
Good looking brisket!  Sorry to hear about the MES controller, but I guessed it was just a matter of time. :(
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: gmannel on July 01, 2015, 08:17:40 AM
What difference have you noticed so far with the enlarging of and adding another air hole? Does the rear hole also act as a drain hole? I don't think the drip pan goes back that far on the 3. Just didn't want to find a mess of drippings on the porch. If so, then the orig bulkhead plan would solve that prob as well as giving you the adjustment option. Also, I wonder if the increased available air would make the A-Maze-N AMNPS functional as I understand it did not work well w this very tight box.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on July 02, 2015, 05:52:51 PM
difference is better bark.  less of a steamed meat end product and more of a smoked meat end product.
don't get me wrong, its still super moist and fills a water pan rather than dry it out.
also, the box cools off more with the increased airflow, so the element turns on more often and longer, leading to better burning of the wood.

future plans of a bigger hole and fan so i can get to where a water pan is needed would be nice.
of course having the option of closing the valve on the bigger hole and not using the fan to keep the original configuration is part of the plan.

the bulkhead idea was intended to solve the dripping problem.
however, the rear hole never dripped.  I do line the bottom with foil and use a pen to poke a hole (two now) in the foil.  never have had a drop come out of the rear hole; bottom (exterior) of the smoker is just as it shipped.  the front hole has stains from the drippings around it.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: gmannel on July 03, 2015, 04:50:45 PM
It seems if the box is level front to back then you would get drippings from both holes - as the "ditch" runs the full length - maybe if a rear hole w/o a bulkhead is desired then screw the rear casters up a bit to tip it towards front hole. Or put 2nd hole far enough forward to utilize drip pan.
My front hole was already 3/8 as the bit just slid through, so I enlarged to 1/2. Only one hole though.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on July 04, 2015, 08:59:34 PM
I hear what you're saying about the dripping at the rear hole, but it just doesn't happen.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: Trip on July 05, 2015, 01:26:00 PM
Has this effected the speed of your smokes?
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on July 06, 2015, 01:47:03 AM
negative
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: gmannel on July 17, 2015, 03:44:03 PM
Updates on your mods - effects?
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on July 17, 2015, 05:13:30 PM
I bit the bullet and bought an Auber; WSD-1500GPH.
Got the wall-mount probe installed.  I've done some tuning.
No airflow changes yet.

Made some skin-on, bone-in chicken breasts the other day that were real good, as expected.  Skin was rubber is my only complaint.
Cold chicken, cold smoker, set temp to 350F.
Just under 1 hour, chicken hit 165F but the smoker was only at 318F.
I've got more tuning to do.

The dampening of the PID certainly makes the box take longer to reach set temp to avoid overshoot.
Without PID control, just plugging the bypassed SI3 to power, it can reach 400F in 40 minutes.

Boneless pork chops going in the smoker in a few...
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: gmannel on July 17, 2015, 06:30:05 PM
Keep posting! I enlarged drain hole to 1/2 " and can already tell a diff
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on July 27, 2015, 09:45:31 PM
Not much to report other than having enlarged the air inlet port on my SI3 to 5/8" (drip hole still at 3/8").
Just did that today and have retuned the auber to match.
Those tune values are posted here for those interested:
http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=1285.msg31112#msg31112 (http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=1285.msg31112#msg31112)

Now to smoke some meat and see how she does!

edit:  I also drilled a 1/2" hole in the bottom of the firebox directly above the rear air inlet port.  All of the holes in the firebox are real close to 1/2".  I'm trying to see if this helps even out the wood burning from front to rear without covering up the opening on the front of the firebox.
I'll post results as soon as I run out of BBQ!
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: TmanEater on July 31, 2015, 09:42:21 PM
FunkedOut-

I learned the lesson about not putting things near the heating element myself:

See the HeaterMeter thread:
http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=2765

http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=2765.msg23387#msg23387
http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=2765.msg23809#msg23809

Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on August 02, 2015, 10:30:59 PM
Tman, I know your pain.  If only there was a forum where we could learn from each other's experiences.   ::)
Actually looks like I was erring as you were feeling the effects of your errors.
At least we put it out there for others to read.

Chickens came home with me today.  They will be going in the smoker this week.  I'll post up the results...
Title: Update
Post by: FunkedOut on August 04, 2015, 09:28:52 PM
a pair of 5 pound chickens got 5 hours in brine.
i then rinsed them off well, pat dry completely and placed each in their own pan, uncovered in the fridge for 12 hours to let the skin dry out.
i then pat them dry completely again, and back in the fridge they went for another 6 hours.
olive oil and a light rub all over with a little extra salt on the skin.

cold chicken, cold smoker; in they went, probe in the breast.
a small chunk of cherry and a small chunk of mesquite.
set the auber to 350F until IT hit 140F, then 140F for hours...

results:
1.2 hours into the smoke, chicken hit 140F.  smoker was only at 325F.
i pulled the chicken after a total cook time of 1.6 hours.
chicken was at 170F and the smoker was only down to 233F.
skin was not crispy.
chicken was delicious and juicy as a peach.

without the auber, this box hits 400F in 40 minutes.
I need to find auber settings that allow a quicker ramp time.
I may just give up on that and program the first step of each cook to 999F for as long as it takes to reach the desired temp.
For this cook, it would have looked like this:

C1 - 999F for 35 minutes
C2 - 350F until IT = 140F
C3 - 140F for many hours (hold warm)

maybe scratch the hold warm option for chicken, babysit the smoker after 1 hour and pull at temp.
even with the 3/8" drip hole and the 5/8" air inlet port, this box does not cool quickly at all.
I'm thinking this was the last naturally aspirated smoke I do.
I'm going Pro Modified and adding a blower.

pics in a few...
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: BedouinBob on August 05, 2015, 10:45:02 AM
Hey Funked Out, the 999F idea may be a cool idea to get around the overshoot prevention in the Auber. What are your thoughts on the 140 deg hold? Finish on the gasser or do you think because of the previous box temp the chicken will end up about 165?
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: allmann on August 05, 2015, 12:34:03 PM
do you crisp up the skin on the grill afterwards and does that dry it out?
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on August 05, 2015, 02:07:01 PM
I am on the quest for great skin without having to resort to the grill or oven.  I'm sure that would work, but I would like to use just the smoker.  I have thought about hitting the skin with a torch to crisp it up.  That should have minimal impact on the meat.

I feel the same way about slow cookers.  If I have to sweat aromatics, or brown meat in a pan/pot, I'll just turn the heat down and finish it there.  Not many things I use a slow cooker for.  Beans are good.

My thoughts on the 140F hold...
This box holds heat too well to use a 140F hold on chicken.  A blower will help it cool down quicker, but probably not enough.  For this last smoke, I killed the heat 25F shy of target temp and the box was still to hot to keep the chicken in there without overshooting the target temp.
I'll keep trying to get it right with a butt or brisket from a lower temp, but temp sensitive cooks will be watched and pulled on time.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: DivotMaker on August 05, 2015, 08:21:02 PM
Funk, you just experienced what I said might happen about reaching 350 before the chicken was done.  You have a long post, and a lot of issues.  I'm going to throw my 2¢ in, and then let you mod and tweak away, seeking the mythical crispy chicken skin in an electric smoker.

If you want to increase the ramp up speed of the Auber, go to YouTube and study how a P.I.D. controller works.  You'll find a number of good (but long) videos on what each value does, and how they effect each other.  I believe what you will find, in trying to achieve this, is a controller that will overshoot set temp and be hard to stabilize....but that's just my guess, as I would never attempt to super-charge my Auber (too expensive to burn up).

Using the 140 hold temp, for something like chicken, is a mistake - not what it's for.  Chicken cooks way too fast, and (as you now know), these boxes don't cool very fast!  If I use the 140 hold, on a large butt or brisket, I set my IT trigger 5° below target, and open the door for awhile when it hits it (to let the smoker cool to 140).  When I close it back up, it has to maintain 140, not cool down to it.

I could be wrong, but it appears you are trying to modify your Auber and smoker to achieve crispy chicken skin, above all else.  Is that the only thing you smoke?  All the drilling, fans, reprogramming, could lead to a smoker that really doesn't do anything else very well.  But, sounds like it will be a chicken smoking monster! 

I, too, was once obsessed with crispy chicken skin, so I feel your pain.  Here's my day of enlightenment, and I'm better now...

Day of Enlightenment (http://smokinitforums.com/index.php?topic=2158.0)
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on August 05, 2015, 08:45:37 PM
great post, Dave, and great link.  appreciate the help.
I love the title of "chicken smoking monster!"   ;D

I've got a good handle on the PID.  I managed to get through school with an electrical engineering degree where I studied them intensively and implemented them for control of various lab projects. 
Best settings for a fast initial rise would be to max out P and zero out I and D, but then the temp swings would be just like with the original controller.  My reason for the auber is to hold a consistent temp and the programming steps, based on time and/or temp.  Best plan for me will be to leave the PID tuned to the system and use a set temp for the initial rise that is out of reach of the PID's interference (like I described above).

Agree with you on the 140F hold.  A keep warm oven is useful.  I was hoping to be able to figure out a trigger temp so that I could smoke a butt or brisket while away from the house and not overshoot the temp.  I may have to give up on that.  Although, I think that with a low smoking temp (220F) and a large piece of meat, it may be possible.  Example would be to smoke a butt overnight, go to work, and come home to the SI3 holding the butt at 140F with the butt having reached a max temp of 195F (or whatever you wish).

I have one more crispy skin attempt left in me.  With a fan, a quick temp rise, and leaving it there until IT hits 165F, I will either get there, or get my day of enlightenment!  ;)

But trust me, everything I have done, has made this box more to my liking for chicken, ribs, butt and brisket.  The closer I move toward crispy skin, the happier I get with the bark on all the other cuts.

You haven't changed my mind, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate your thoughts.  That's why I post here.  To share and listen.

As far as the fan goes, I am hoping to use it in place of a jerky fan.  My thoughts are to push clean air in, rather than pull smoke out.  They both accomplish the same thing, only pushing clean, cold air will be easier on the fan that pulling hot smoke.
Once I get that installed, my smoked peppers should be easier to cold smoke.  I haven't posted about the hot sauce yet...
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: elkins20 on August 05, 2015, 08:47:32 PM
Then there are some of us that do not care for chicken. But, once or twice a year will appease my wife and smoke chicken on one of the Weber's. I use the smokin-it for pork and beef. And hopefully will be able to smoke almonds soon as now have all the items needed to make seafood grills. Stainless steel 3/16 bar, and ss mesh cloth with 1/4" opening. Also seems like I read earlier in your post you was going to add 3/4" pipe to the rear hole to deter drippings out of the rear hole. Is that still in your thoughts?
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on August 05, 2015, 08:48:42 PM
I hear what you're saying about the dripping at the rear hole, but it just doesn't happen.

and guess what....
it happened.  two chickens and I found drippings coming out of the rear hole when cleaning up today.
looks like the fan will be going in along with a bulkhead. ::)
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: DivotMaker on August 05, 2015, 09:25:23 PM
Glad you took that in the spirit it was intended, Funk! :D   It would be interesting to do a little testing of how long it takes the smoker to cool from 225 to 140, so you could trigger the change, and account for the temp where the meat is still cooking.  Like I said, I do it manually, by cooling the smoker quickly, but it would be nice to trigger a hold, and not overshoot the IT when you can't open the smoker.  Actually, I suppose if it cools below the IT of the meat, it wouldn't really be cooking more, so a 30-40° drop would likely be all you need.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on August 06, 2015, 12:42:48 AM
...It would be interesting to do a little testing of how long it takes the smoker to cool from 225 to 140, so you could trigger the change, and account for the temp where the meat is still cooking....

Ask an ye shall receive.
The data the chart is from when the inlet hole was 7/16" and the drip hole at 3/8"
I've since enlarged the inlet hole to 5/8"
Adding a fan will increase airflow further.
More airflow means it heats up slower and cools down quicker.

From this chart, 225F to 140F = exactly 1 hour
Also, 225F to 195F is 15 minutes.  That's promising.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on August 14, 2015, 12:58:53 AM
Enlarged the rear hole tonight to 7/8" so I could install a stainless 1/2" bulkhead.  This will solve the dripping issue that finally happened and give a way to pipe air in, attach a fan and install a valve as needed.

I found the bulkhead on eBay for $9 shipped from China.
It's got female NPT outside the smoker and straight 1/2" threads inside with a stainless washer and silicone gasket on either side of the smoker floor. A nut snugs it all down from the inside.

As is, there's a ~1/2" hole that won't drip. 
I have a few more pieces of stainless adapters and silicone hoses coming from China to get a fan piped in.
China is cheap and good enough, but not fast!
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on August 26, 2015, 10:16:28 PM
Finally got all the bits from China and a chance to put it together.
I got a 23cfm fan that has a 15mm port for the airflow.
I got a 1/2" NPT male to 15mm barb fitting in 304 stainless to match the bulkhead.
I got 15mm ID food grade silicone hose and hose clamps.
I had a 12V power supply laying around from an old router.
Put the whole thing together for less than $30.

23cfm is not a lot of air, you can barely feel it coming out of the exhaust port.
I don't think this will be enough for making jerky.
I do think this will make great BBQ.
Now to give it a run.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: DivotMaker on August 27, 2015, 10:47:39 PM
23cfm is not a lot of air, you can barely feel it coming out of the exhaust port.
I don't think this will be enough for making jerky.
I do think this will make great BBQ.

Yeah... As I've said before, I'm all in favor of experimentation and innovation, but this kind of appears like an exercise in futility.  Let us know if it really "improves" what most of us can already do in our SIs. 

If it's not enough air movement for jerky and such, what's the point?  I have smoked a ton of meat in my SIs, and have never felt like I needed more airflow, except for jerky.  Please, enlighten me!
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on August 28, 2015, 12:09:24 AM
Futility?  Hardly.
I like BBQ.  I like it a certain way. 
When I bought this box, it didn't make BBQ that way.  It was too much like cooked in a slow cooker and not enough like cooked in a smoker.
The difference, airflow.  Good title for the thread.   ;)
Every step I have taken, has been in the right direction.  My results are moving towards my liking.

As far as jerky is concerned, if this fan is not enough, there are stronger fans.
Gotta start somewhere.  I asked the community and SI's president for the cfm rating on the jerky fan; did not get an answer.  So this is my first stab.

Divot, at times you come across as if you feel I'm either trying to convince you that you need to do this, or I'm knocking the design and it needs correction.
Neither of those are the case.  I am sharing my journey because I came here to seek info that I did not find.

If you're happy with the results you're getting, you'd be foolish to change anything.

Hope that lights your candle.

Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: DivotMaker on August 30, 2015, 01:49:43 PM
Divot, at times you come across as if you feel I'm either trying to convince you that you need to do this, or I'm knocking the design and it needs correction.
Neither of those are the case.  I am sharing my journey because I came here to seek info that I did not find.

If you're happy with the results you're getting, you'd be foolish to change anything.

Hope that lights your candle.

Not the case, at all, Funk.  I am merely playing devil's advocate for not needing to turn our smokers into Frankensmoker for them to work "properly!"  I don't want inexperienced potential owners to think they need to do all kinds of mods to these smokers to make them work "right," that's all.  You, obviously, are on a quest to produce BBQ that fits your very unique definition of "good BBQ," and I wish you nothing but success in doing so.  It's your smoker, and your time and money, so have good luck pursuing your end results!

I will add that I totally disagree with your assessment that it makes BBQ like it was cooked in a slow cooker.  If you are getting that result, it's your prep, not the smoker.  If everyone got that impression from their BBQ, I don't think Steve would constantly remain sold-out of his smokers.  The fact is, when meat is prepared properly, you can produce some of the finest BBQ anyone will ever eat, out of a totally stock SI smoker.  I went head-to-head on pulled pork, against a guy with a $10,000 custom-built offset stick burner, and won hands-down.  Just food for thought...  I know you have a ton of BBQ experience, so don't take that as a knock.  It's just a different smoker, that demands different methods, that's all.

Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: FunkedOut on August 30, 2015, 03:27:10 PM
Fair enough.  Points taken.
I've got to try some of your pork.
That must be one helluva paint job!   ;)
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: DivotMaker on August 30, 2015, 03:32:06 PM
Fair enough.  Points taken.
I've got to try some of your pork.
That must be one helluva paint job!   ;)

Thanks Funk!  Healthy discussion is great, and all opinions are welcomed here! 

The paint job came out great, but would look better with your wheels! :D
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: Big Red Home Smoker on August 31, 2015, 09:36:05 AM
Glad you guys kissed and made up!   :-*  Almost thought we'd need to call in a moderator!  Fun to watch comments play out in this forum as everyone is very loyal to their methods/techniques and sometimes the written word can so easily be taken out of context.  You guys ended up handling this like true gentlemen.
Title: Re: Airflow
Post by: DivotMaker on August 31, 2015, 10:51:36 PM
Hehe, yeah, Terry! ;)   We've had some doozy "spirited" discussions, around here!  But, the cool thing about our forum is that no one gets personal!  Like you said, we all have methods/techniques that we are loyal to.  If you haven't noticed, I kind of like debating, and will defend my position with the veracity of a pit bull.  By the same token, I can be subject to change, given the right argument!  Convince me your position is more logical, and I'm all in! ;D