First smoke temperature issues.....

[DivotMaker]

I'm not familiar with the Omega, but I bet if you post the model you're using, we can help.  We have some pretty smart tech guys on here that probably know all about the Omega units.  Not sure, just guessing, but it may be a tuning issue.  And, like Dave said, if you want the best control possible with a PID, the stock controller bypass is the way to go.  It's easy, and puts the PID in total control.

[Wik]

Hey Gus,
Not sure how you have the Omega PID hooked up, but since I use some PIDs in my homebrewing...  I'm assuming the PID also has a light for when its relay is closed.  Did it cycle at all as it was getting closer to reaching the temp?

-Is it possible the cycle time is set so low that the blinking is so fast the light appears to stay on?  I think the Auber defaults to about a 2 sec cycle time if I'm not mistaken.  Maybe yours is set to fractional seconds or something?  I know for homebrewing I tend to set the cycle time as low as possible to prevent surges in the boil kettle.  The theory is cycle time so low AND PID values in a range that are causing throttling to prevent overshooting temp.
-Also since I use PIDs to control a solid state relay which controls the heating circuit.  Do you have the same type of setup?  Is it possible that the relay isn't allowing the full current to flow?  (ie damaged in some way?)

I know both of these are probably both a shot in the dark, just thinking out loud.  I have the #3 so my experiences on heat-up are probably different due to size of unit and wattage of element, so really can't help with what is typical on the #1.  It just seems strange the light was on the whole time and the thing didn't get that hot.  If I had to guess the #3 runs less than 20% (if that) on -20F days after reaching temp.

Disclaimer - I'm no expert in the PIDs, just throwing things out there to see if anything sticks...
Good Luck,
Wik

[BBQboy]

There isn't anything wrong with the PID.
I've used PIDs for many years - the particular PID in question has performed flawlessly on several other smokers.
The element simply isn't coming up to temperature for some reason - I disconnected the PID near the end of the cook and it didn't make a bit of different.
Power line voltage was checked and that's fine.
I'm reluctant to alter the smoker because I don't want to void the warranty in any way.



<Gus>

[Wik]

I guess I'd probably reach out to Steve to see what he thinks.  He's taken care of me before when I had a concern.  Logically the only other thing I can think of is the element based on what you have said, but those I believe are either good or completely don't work.  Strangest thing I have heard of.  Everything you stated makes it sounds like the element is undersized (which I'm assuming was your first thought all along), otherwise something faulty which the only things left are wire, connections, internal thermostat switch contacts, and element.  I'll defer to the guys that actually have this size smoker / wattage of element with similar meat load as if it was undersized I'd think others would be seeing the same thing.  Maybe check with ohm meter and calc backwards to wattage for 120 circuit OR a kilowatt meter if you have one to see if wattage pull = advertised watts.  All I know is the #3 the auber/pid needs to start throttling well ahead of the set point to prevent and overshoot of the preset temp (typically 225 on my smokes).  The most meat I've put in at once was (2) 8lb butts and once a pretty big turkey.  But my experiences really are not an apples to apples comparison.

Best suggestion I have is to Email or call Steve
Hope you get to the bottom of it!
Wik

[Wik]

I guess bypassing the internal switch might remove a possibility, but I doubt it will help since the smoker light was lit the whole time.  It would be different if the smoker light was cycling at a lower temperature due to a faulty thermostat, but based on what you reported this is not the case.  I really only bypassed mine to be able to take it higher to around 300F for chicken and such to get a better crisp skin / etc.  I'm with you, I'd be hesitant to be crackin it open until you check with Steve.
Wik

[old sarge]

Chad,

What you say on the bypass makes sense. But is there a possibility that with a PID controlling the power to the smoker and having a PID probe competing with the on board probe and thus the controller, could there not be a conflict or some interference?  I will admit I have no experience in this (and probably should butt out altogether), but others here and elsewhere did eventually bypass with some stating they desired a higher temp and others stating it was the only way to get to a desired temp such as the magical 225 and have it stabilize.

Dave

[DivotMaker]

Gus, this is probably a dumb question, but it's not specifically clear in your previous comments.  When you had the PID attached, was the analog temp knob set to 250?  This has been overlooked in the past.  Also, I would suggest putting a good heat sink in the smoker (a few bricks or pan of sand, and a water pan), no wood, no PID, and check the internal temp again.  Clip your thermometer probe to the little shelf that the OEM thermocouple is attached to, so it will read as close as possible to the stock sensor, then set the analog dial to 250.  I think it would be worth eliminating the possibility of an issue with your particular PID.  See if the smoker functions properly, as it came from the factory, then test further with the PID.  I'm sure that's a great PID, but so far as I know, it has never been used on this brand of smoker.  You definitely sound like you have a very good working knowledge of PIDs, but it seems we need to remove it from the equation to test the smoker.

I have a model 1 that has seldom been idle for very long, and I have never experienced problems with it not getting up to temp, even 250.  You are, of course, limited by Q real estate in the #1, so it's really hard to "overload" it, like these guys with a #3.    I only use the #1 in analog mode.

[Wik]

Dave,

That is what I like about this form, everyone gives their opinions.  One of the reasons I try and read all the new topics as I learn something all the time.  Most of the time others beat me to the punch, so I'm usually just lurking in the background.  You could be right and would make sense in some situations.  Meaning the built in temperature probe is towards the bottom (closer to the heat element) so if that senses that it is hot enough to "cut" the current prior to the Auber Pid temp probe that is closer to the meat (further away from the heat element).  Then yes it is very feasible that they are conflicting with each other.  Basically like having 2 switches in series.  They must both be On to allow smoker to heat, but if either one is in the off position then no heating will occur.  So if the internal one is always On meaning it thinks it is not hot enough yet, then there shouldn't be a problem.  Otherwise yes it could cause issues.

I guess I should say I'm assuming the internal one is truly an On / Off type switch similar to what is in an electric oven (and not some type of proportional unit).  Maybe others could correct my understanding if I'm mistaken.  I myself like being by-passed for the higher temp reason, but I think at first I did it to ensure I didn't have any possible conflict as well.  But I will say my smokes with auber prior to by-passing with analog set to 250 worked just fine.  However Analog ones probably have some varying temperature ranges, as I suspect it is just a bulb that heats the air inside it that pushes open a set of relay contacts.
Wik

[old sarge]

Wik,

Here is a little explanation of these analog controllers. I am assuming of course that the SI uses a bulb and capillary unit, which is very common.

Dave

http://www.tempco.com/Catalog/Section%2013-pdf/Bulb_Capillary_Thermostats.pdf

[BBQboy]

I think that the problem may have been caused by the wind.
The breeze was light but it was sort of funneled between two buildings.
I smoked a chicken today, again the smoker was initially very slow coming up to temperature so I blocked the wind from blowing across the top of the smoker - the temperature jumped up about 20 degrees in 20 minutes.
So, with the pork butt smoke, apparently the little 350 watt element couldn't overcome what was being lost to the light breeze.


<Gus>

[Wik]

That is interesting.  I've heard others talk about the affect of wind, I guess I haven't had an issue with it.  Usually some wind where I live, but smoker is generally in a corner that helps shield it a bit.  But there is always some it seems.  Maybe the #1 is more susceptible to the wind factor then the models with larger wattage elements.  Damn that venturi affect.
Looks like you've made some ground on this mystery!
Wik

[DivotMaker]

Sounds plausible, depending on wind strength.  I've used my #1 many times in the wind, and haven't had that kind of issue.  My house sits on top of a little hill, so the wind is usually stronger than down below.  The smoker is on the southern porch, so I catch the prevailing south wind most of the time...except during this stinking winter!  I've always expected problems due to the wind, but haven't experienced them.  My little beast works harder in the wind, I guess!  What I'm saying is that I do probably 8 out of 10 smokes on windy days (10-15 mph, or higher).