Author Topic: temp concerns  (Read 12901 times)

DivotMaker

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Re: temp concerns
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2014, 11:12:11 PM »
When I used to use a Brinkman water smoker, I would fill the water pan with sand.  It seemed to regulate the heat better.  I've thought of using 2 of the mini loaf pans (that I use for water pans); one with juice, and one on the other side with sand.  Hmm...that may be a near-future project!
Tony from NW Arkansas
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old sarge

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Re: temp concerns
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2014, 11:57:34 PM »
I did find some information.  Seems the use of a heat sink to stabilize temperatures is used in charcoal, propane and electric smokers.  The use of water is great and assists in the smoke adhering to meat and helps maintain moisture.  However, not necessary on large cuts with a lot of fat. Also, it stops absorbing heat at 212 degrees (elevation above sea level dependent) and evaporates. I suppose as you lose water to evaporation, you lose mass and your sink shrinks.

Dry playground sand is reportedly much better. It will continue to absorb heat, all the heat you give it. And it does not evaporate. It can be an aid in crisping since it is a dry heat. And if additional moisture is needed, just add water to the sand. If dry, you can cover the pan of sand with foil to keep grease out of it.

Bottom line:  each method has its own adherents. And they like the results they get. And they politely disagree as to which method is better.

There are also reports of employing lava rock, ceramic tile, and other means of absorbing heat and releasing slowly.


David from Arizona
US Army 70 - 95
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DivotMaker

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Re: temp concerns
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2014, 12:01:04 AM »
Great info, Dave!  I've not tried the sand in my SI, though I used to use it.  I'm up for a trial!
Tony from NW Arkansas
"Official Smokin-It Test Pilot"
Smokin-It Model 1, 2D conversion, and 3D
Auber PID, NexGrill 896 6-burner, CharBroil Big Easy, Anova Precision Cooker w/WiFi
Wife, Son and One REALLY Big Dog!

NDKoze

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Re: temp concerns
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2014, 12:09:20 AM »
I kind of like the idea of liquid on one side and sand on the other.

Seems like the best of both worlds.
Gregg - Fargo, ND
Smokin-It #3 (purchased in 2014) that replaced a Masterbuilt XL (ugh) and a 10+ Year-Old Big Chief (still used for fish), and few others over the years, along with variety of Weber Gas/Charcoal Grills, Anova Sous Vide, etc. devices.

old sarge

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Re: temp concerns
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2014, 12:09:31 AM »
I should have also stated that on the electric smokers, it was evident that these methods were being used on both analog and digital smokers. No mention though of the absorbed heats effect on the cycling of the heating element.
David from Arizona
US Army 70 - 95
SI 3D & Big Red Controller
CS 066
Lodge Sportsman Grill
Weber Kettle
Ducane Meridian 42 inch Grill
LEM MaxVac 1088A
LEM Big Bite #8 Grinder
Chef's Choice 665 and Rival Slicers
Old Hickory Knives
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Colt911

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Re: temp concerns
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2014, 02:19:22 AM »
I posted this on another forum, but I thought I would also post it here.

I have the #2 and watched the temperature swings in the box at first.  Now I just set it and forget it and watch the IT of what I am cooking.  Yes it swings, but It averages out at my set temperature and my smokes come out as expected.  If you are not close to averaging, then I would suspect a problem, or might need to pull the knob and move it around a notch.  To me the air temp might vary slightly around the meat, but It will still be cooking and smoking.  If I am looking for a 195 finish and the smoker swings from 215 to 235 while I am getting there it does not bother me.

Going to the trouble and expense of a PID controller can and will hold the area at the sensor closer to the the set temperate, but I can not see how that will affect the outcome differently than several hours of normal on/off swings much. I am not trying to do a high speed exact chemical process here where a batch will spoil if it gets 5 too hot or will solidify if it gets 5 too cool.  I guess I have already dealt with too many Proportional, Integral, Derivative controllers in critical process situations in my life to be concerned with it in my slow smoker.

I saw someone post earlier that they were not familiar with the term PID Controller.  Here is a web site with a very simple basic explanation of how it would affect your smoker..

http://www.ospid.com/blog/what-is-pid-control/

Just my opinion.

Like my old H2 Kawasaki, if it ain't smoken, its broken.

old sarge

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Re: temp concerns
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2014, 10:06:24 AM »
Well put Colt911. The smokers work quite well as designed. What matters is the final product. The FAQ section on this site, and on a competitors site, states clearly there will be temperature swings. A reasonable person will think about this before making a purchase.  Either they can live with it or not. If not, don't buy an analog smoker. 

Or get the analog smoker and being fully aware that there are temperature swings,purchase a PID like the Auber and modify the smoker to get the accuracy they want or need.  Perfectly acceptable option.

 
David from Arizona
US Army 70 - 95
SI 3D & Big Red Controller
CS 066
Lodge Sportsman Grill
Weber Kettle
Ducane Meridian 42 inch Grill
LEM MaxVac 1088A
LEM Big Bite #8 Grinder
Chef's Choice 665 and Rival Slicers
Old Hickory Knives
InstantPot Duo80 Plus

NDKoze

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Re: temp concerns
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2014, 10:19:11 AM »
Hey guys. I think some of the last posts have forgotten that the OP understands that there will be swings and wasn't concerned about the swings. It was the inability to get up to or come close to averaging a temp that was his concern.

That being said, I agree that he and I need to give the smoker a chance because most people do not experience this issue.

I think most of us who have researched analog electric smokers understand that there will be swings.

Gregg still remaining Zen  8)
Gregg - Fargo, ND
Smokin-It #3 (purchased in 2014) that replaced a Masterbuilt XL (ugh) and a 10+ Year-Old Big Chief (still used for fish), and few others over the years, along with variety of Weber Gas/Charcoal Grills, Anova Sous Vide, etc. devices.

old sarge

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Re: temp concerns
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2014, 10:52:32 AM »
It never hurts to remind folks of the swings. There are those who will visit the site, see only the positive and then get concerned after the purchase when they don't see the accuracy they expected.
David from Arizona
US Army 70 - 95
SI 3D & Big Red Controller
CS 066
Lodge Sportsman Grill
Weber Kettle
Ducane Meridian 42 inch Grill
LEM MaxVac 1088A
LEM Big Bite #8 Grinder
Chef's Choice 665 and Rival Slicers
Old Hickory Knives
InstantPot Duo80 Plus

DivotMaker

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Re: temp concerns
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2014, 12:08:17 PM »
Well-put, Colt!  The swings can be disconcerting to those who don't know they're going to happen with an analog.  Dave has tested another popular brand, similar to a SI, but comes with a digital controller (you'll have to guess which brand).  Even the high $$ digital smoker experienced temp swings!  Just because they cost 2-3 times what a SI does, doesn't mean you're paying for PID accuracy on board.

My model 1 typically holds +/- 10 degrees, and my smokes are predictable as can be.  Times are very consistent, even with the analog. 

I know the original post was about not getting up to temp, but as Gregg mentioned, this is rare, and the company stands behind their product.  Glad to see Gregg's still Zen! 8)
Tony from NW Arkansas
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Smokin-It Model 1, 2D conversion, and 3D
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old sarge

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Re: temp concerns
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2014, 06:52:16 PM »
Tell me about it. I packed the little remote  away and stopped thinking about the difference and worrying about it. The food is done when it is done. As for
The 3 that my brother has he has cheched his temp ans found the swings ok and only uses a remote for the it. He has learned to stop agonizing over the difference which in the long run has no effect on the outcome.
David from Arizona
US Army 70 - 95
SI 3D & Big Red Controller
CS 066
Lodge Sportsman Grill
Weber Kettle
Ducane Meridian 42 inch Grill
LEM MaxVac 1088A
LEM Big Bite #8 Grinder
Chef's Choice 665 and Rival Slicers
Old Hickory Knives
InstantPot Duo80 Plus

TheSneakyZebra

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Re: temp concerns
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2014, 12:01:07 PM »
Thanks for the replies guys. Sorry, but I was out of town so I did not see all of them until now. I am just going to roll with it and see how it goes. I ordered this to assist in catering so I was a little more concerned than a backyard BBQer. I will see how things go and if I need to go the PID route or not. Thanks for the input yall!
Mikey from WA

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NDKoze

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Re: temp concerns
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2014, 01:08:56 PM »
I think I will still monitor the cooking chamber just to make sure that I the swings are up and down around my set temp so I know if I need to adjust the dial settings or not. If I am going up and down and roughly averaging what my dial is set at I will be very happy.
Gregg - Fargo, ND
Smokin-It #3 (purchased in 2014) that replaced a Masterbuilt XL (ugh) and a 10+ Year-Old Big Chief (still used for fish), and few others over the years, along with variety of Weber Gas/Charcoal Grills, Anova Sous Vide, etc. devices.

benjammn

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Re: temp concerns
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2014, 08:04:04 PM »
hey if you want to see a graphic of my last smoke, I have a pic posted showing the temps from my Tappecue, pretty cool to see, you can draw a line right through the chamber temps and get the average temp that was cooking at
Ben in Chandler, AZ
Proud owner of #2

DivotMaker

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Re: temp concerns
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2014, 08:08:50 PM »
That's a cool graph, Ben.  Definitely a nice feature of the Tappecue!
Tony from NW Arkansas
"Official Smokin-It Test Pilot"
Smokin-It Model 1, 2D conversion, and 3D
Auber PID, NexGrill 896 6-burner, CharBroil Big Easy, Anova Precision Cooker w/WiFi
Wife, Son and One REALLY Big Dog!